CA Surveying

Guys,

I took the Cal Surverying last October and didnt make it. I did all the problems in the Coumo book and the 120 problem book (from the other board). I however found all the questions to be very different (and difficult). I found the exam problems to be more real time based whereas in the study material they are theory (or trignometry) based. I am a Structural engineer and I have been out of school for 4+ years now. Can you please recommend any other material that would explain things clearly? A cut off of 183 means the exam was relatively easier. What went wrong??

Appreciate your time. Thanks.

PE_STR

Nobody knows of a good prep for the exam. I took Reza's course and I'm more confused then before. Can you explain what real time means? I was told problems are based on alot of Trig and calculations.

PE_STR -

My B.S. was in surveying engineering - I'm in MI, the strictest state for PS licensure in the union. What exactly were you running into that was so very different / difficult? Was it property / cadastral law, PLSS, 'hierarchy of calls' type of stuff? I know the PLSS stuff can be a huge gray area. . .otherwise i do know of an excellent textbook that would cover just about everything else though is probably high $$ -

error_matrix said:

PE_STR -
My B.S. was in surveying engineering - I'm in MI, the strictest state for PS licensure in the union. What exactly were you running into that was so very different / difficult? Was it property / cadastral law, PLSS, 'hierarchy of calls' type of stuff? I know the PLSS stuff can be a huge gray area. . .otherwise i do know of an excellent textbook that would cover just about everything else though is probably high $$ -

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Thanks for your help. I did the 120 problem + the practise problems in Coumo. They were a lot different than what I saw on the exam (atleast for me). I felt like the exam was more for a Surveyor or Civil (Transp) person who deals with Surveying stuff on a day to day basis. I am thinking of getting the Elementary Surveying: An Introduction to Geomatics by Wolf or Surveying: Principles and Applications by Barry F Kavanagh book. What do you think?

Thanks again for your help. I appreciate it.

The Kavanagh book I'm familiar with, and I would think that would be a good ref to have - another one was Moffitt & Bossler (Surveying). The most robust textbook would be Anderson & Mikhail (Surveying: Theory & Practice), but thats probably above what would be handy for you.

The Kavanagh book should work well, not familiar with the Wolf book. Good Luck!

Adrock said:

Nobody knows of a good prep for the exam. I took Reza's course and I'm more confused then before. Can you explain what real time means? I was told problems are based on alot of Trig and calculations.

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I am an Industrial Engineer and took Reza's class. I found his class to be right on. Every topic that he covered. was on the test.

Better luck next time.

NJ PE said:

I am an Industrial Engineer and took Reza's class. I found his class to be right on. Every topic that he covered. was on the test.Better luck next time.

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Did you pass the test? I agree with PE-STR that the test format is screwy compared to most of the study material out there. I have the REZA problems (sample test), and they did help quite a bit, the part I messed up on was the office procedures. Seismic was much more clear cut.

I just got my results back from CA and the only test I failed was the surveying exam. The diagnostic I received stated that I didnt do too well in the Office Procedures area. Does anyone know what this is exactly? I kind of have an idea but would like to get a better answer from somone. Thanks.

I'm going to take the April 2010 surveying exam. I'm going over the Cuomo book and I just ordered the Reza practice exams. Based on your guys experience, do you think this is enough? Basically, I'm going to work problems until my eyes are sore. I think that's they key to passing this test. Let me know.

Look for some indepth surveying books, Cuomo and and the exams do not have adequate coverage for equipment and field methods. I went on amazon and purchased a couple for survey books cheap and it does help you understand the field portion of surveying if you are not a surveyor, knowing the difference in types of equipment is important as well.

I found the exam to be a lot more geometry/trig based than cuomo based (I only used cuomo's book once or twice).

But given that, cuomo did help me remember my geometry/trig functions that I use. I also looked for shortcuts in the problems and often found them.

It's not the type of exam where you will find similar problems somewhere and can just plug and chug. You're going to have to think about what they're asking for, and what would be the easiest way for you to find it.

And remember your gemetrical laws (law of sines, law of cosines, etc). They'll come in very handy.

dastuff said:

I found the exam to be a lot more geometry/trig based than cuomo based (I only used cuomo's book once or twice).
But given that, cuomo did help me remember my geometry/trig functions that I use. I also looked for shortcuts in the problems and often found them.

It's not the type of exam where you will find similar problems somewhere and can just plug and chug. You're going to have to think about what they're asking for, and what would be the easiest way for you to find it.

And remember your gemetrical laws (law of sines, law of cosines, etc). They'll come in very handy.

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I completely agree. I even took my old trig book with all the formulas on the inside cover. I used it at least a couple of times during the exam.

Trashman said:

I completely agree. I even took my old trig book with all the formulas on the inside cover. I used it at least a couple of times during the exam.

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Thank you for the advice. By "trig and calculations", do you mean I should focus on horizontal and vertical curves, slope distances and angle measurement (i.e. traverses). It sounds like I shouldn't worry too much about qualitative material like California Coordinate system, U.S. Public Lands system, construction staking, etc.

Thanks

You need to know the horizontal and vertical curves since they are easy questions compared to the rest of the exam. The biggest problem I had was trying to figure what angles I was given to solve a problem. I did not even attempt the problems where x,y coordiantes were given. These were in thousands of feet and just getting the data into the calculator was going to be chore.

Get the easy stuff down hard, definitions, equipment types, level measurement, closed loop, elevation measurement, horizontal and vertical curves.

The hard problem I dont think there is any prep for, know you trig inside and out, especially the law of sines and cosines, and working out x,y coordiantes and some right triangle stuff. I think these are a crap shoot and were so difficult you may have a better chance guessing and spending the time on other more workable problems.

Looks like I missed passing by 1 or 2 questions even after they tossed 4 questions.

PE_STR said:

Guys,
I took the Cal Surverying last October and didnt make it. I did all the problems in the Coumo book and the 120 problem book (from the other board). I however found all the questions to be very different (and difficult). I found the exam problems to be more real time based whereas in the study material they are theory (or trignometry) based. I am a Structural engineer and I have been out of school for 4+ years now. Can you please recommend any other material that would explain things clearly? A cut off of 183 means the exam was relatively easier. What went wrong??

Appreciate your time. Thanks.

PE_STR

Click to expand...

Hi, I did the same thing u did the first time I took the exam. I was completely blown away by the depth and difficulty of the problems compared to what I studied in the cuomo/120 questions/samples exams.

Lesson that everyone should learn is that those books are absolutely rubbish. They will not help anyone pass that test because the contents are outdated in regards to what was on the test.

I suggest buying Reza's handbook. It will save you grief in the future.

I took all 3 exams for the first time, and I passed all except surveying. I studied only Cuomo and the 120 solved problems book. I felt I did OK on surveying and was surprised that I failed. I've heard horror stories of people having to take this exam 3 to 4 times, so I am very concerned to set up a correct study plan. I am signed up for Reza's seminar for the Oct 2010 exam. This course and/or workbook sounds like what is needed? It seems the bar is raised pretty high on this exam, based on what I have heard. :reading:

TESTY said:

I took all 3 exams for the first time, and I passed all except surveying. I studied only Cuomo and the 120 solved problems book. I felt I did OK on surveying and was surprised that I failed. I've heard horror stories of people having to take this exam 3 to 4 times, so I am very concerned to set up a correct study plan. I am signed up for Reza's seminar for the Oct 2010 exam. This course and/or workbook sounds like what is needed? It seems the bar is raised pretty high on this exam, based on what I have heard. :reading:

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Do all the problems in the Reza book, 120 Solved Problems and sample problems in the Cuomo book. That's what I did in order to pass on my first attempt.

Chew0nthat said:

PE_STR said:

Guys,
I took the Cal Surverying last October and didnt make it. I did all the problems in the Coumo book and the 120 problem book (from the other board). I however found all the questions to be very different (and difficult). I found the exam problems to be more real time based whereas in the study material they are theory (or trignometry) based. I am a Structural engineer and I have been out of school for 4+ years now. Can you please recommend any other material that would explain things clearly? A cut off of 183 means the exam was relatively easier. What went wrong??

Appreciate your time. Thanks.

PE_STR

Click to expand...

Hi, I did the same thing u did the first time I took the exam. I was completely blown away by the depth and difficulty of the problems compared to what I studied in the cuomo/120 questions/samples exams.

Lesson that everyone should learn is that those books are absolutely rubbish. They will not help anyone pass that test because the contents are outdated in regards to what was on the test.

I suggest buying Reza's handbook. It will save you grief in the future.

Click to expand...

I can certainly appreciate the broad range of knowledge it takes to succeed as a Civil Engineer especially when first entering the profession and dealing with the FE and PE exams. But it seems like most of the efforts to prepare for the exam are study material driven rather than what is required by law to be a Civil Engineer in California. The books from the review courses do not dictate what a Civil Engineer is required to know to practice, the laws do. The real genesis for the content behind the requirement for the Engineering Surveying exam is the Professional Engineer's Act Section 6731.1 (Business and Professions Code):

6731.1. Civil engineering; additional authority

Civil engineering also includes the practice or offer to practice, either in a public or private capacity, all of the following:

(a) Locates, relocates, establishes, reestablishes, or retraces the alignment or elevation for any of the fixed works embraced within the practice of civil engineering, as described in Section 6731.

(B)) Determines the configuration or contour of the earth’s surface or the position of fixed objects above, on, or below the surface of earth by applying the principles of trigonometry or photogrammetry.

© Creates, prepares, or modifies electronic or computerized data in the performance of the activities described in subdivisions (a) and (B).

(d) Renders a statement regarding the accuracy of maps or measured survey data pursuant to subdivisions (a), (B), and ©.

This section is identical to the first couple of definitions under the Professional Land Surveyors's Act (Business & Professions Code Section 8726) which as I read the law, allows licensed Civil Engineers to survey existing fixed works (Asbuilt Survey), stake out fixed works, perform and prepare topographic surveys, and perform those tasks in a computerized format. You're not necessarily going to learn how to do those from a review manual taught in a seminar. The seminar should be treated as a review.

I realize that many civil engineering programs don't require any surveying curriculum much any more, but if your goal is to become licensed in California, it would be wise to obtain that knowledge or experience. It's not about just doing the trigonometry or math, it's about knowing how to apply it correctly for the consumers.

CAPLS

I only wish the exam was similar to your detailed summary of the requirements. The exam is a exercise in trig and geometry, there is no two ways about in. In addition you must do 50 problems in 2.5 hours. That sets up a hurdle that is much beyond "It's not about just doing the trigonometry or math, it's about knowing how to apply it correctly for the consumers".

I do wish the exam was more in line with your ideals but this is the test that they have developed and it is our job to meet that challange.

EnvEngineer said:

I only wish the exam was similar to your detailed summary of the requirements. The exam is a exercise in trig and geometry, there is no two ways about in. In addition you must do 50 problems in 2.5 hours. That sets up a hurdle that is much beyond "It's not about just doing the trigonometry or math, it's about knowing how to apply it correctly for the consumers".
I do wish the exam was more in line with your ideals but this is the test that they have developed and it is our job to meet that challange.

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Everyone needs to consider the fact that you only need 2 years of work experience after completing an undergraduate degree in civil engineering to qualify taking the PE exam in California. I think the surveying exam is there to make the process a bit more difficult, yet more satisfying, than you would see in other states. With the sheer number of PEs in California, it's an added benefit for all engineers to have working surveying knowledge and make the accomplishment of becoming a PE worth the effort. Who's to say that other states may not mandate their own surveying exam in the future to ensure a higher standard in the engineering profession?

Also, it's common knowledge that the cut scores for the surveying exam are usually lower than what is required for the PE exam. It's an exercise in trig, geometry, and traverses. If you can be proficient in these topics, then passing the exam is inevitable.