CALIFORNIA RESULTS - APR 2008 - Engineer Boards
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ndekens

CALIFORNIA RESULTS

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So I figured I would start the Cali thread even though we have not heard anything. But if my memory serves me correctly the last four times I have taken this test...by now we should have at least had news on a proposed result date. However we have nada...so what are your guys thoughts on that?

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So I figured I would start the Cali thread even though we have not heard anything. But if my memory serves me correctly the last four times I have taken this test...by now we should have at least had news on a proposed result date. However we have nada...so what are your guys thoughts on that?

Looks like its August 4th!!

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Look for their next meeting date, add 3 weeks for incompetency/screw-ups; that will be the date you receive notification.

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August 4??? Are you F-ing kidding me?? That's even longer than the wait for the Oct 07 exam.

* sigh *

For a freaking Scantron test. Get your act together - that's 6 weeks where I could be studying for Oct 08! *cry*

That may be reality, but their plan is to have them out by August 4 (only 6 weeks after everyone else)

http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/apr08results.shtml

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... that's 6 weeks where I could be studying for Oct 08! *cry*

We hope you won't need to study for October, right? :)

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August 4th...not entirely sure how they manage to be a month behind everyone :oldman:

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California is just so much of a kick ass state they can make you wait.

Seriously, what are you going to do? move to south carolina or west virginia?

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California is just so much of a kick ass state they can make you wait.

Your right, what was I saying sorry for, I don't feel bad, I'm actually am kinda jealous.

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I guess anyone in doubt had better start studying prior to getting their results in CA since they are going to be delivered so late. What a pain.

Good luck to all!

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It's really disheartening seeing the scrolling board above of who has passed the PE.

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It's really disheartening seeing the scrolling board above of who has passed the PE.

yeah... been there. it sucks. it seems like everone else passing is old news by the time you find out.

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Cheer up California... We are half way there... just shy of 56 days. We will eventually get ours!

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Cheer up California... We are half way there... just shy of 56 days. We will eventually get ours!

I have been through this and I totally understand the mode. Good luck to you all!

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I have been through this and I totally understand the mode. Good luck to you all!

Just to bring the topic upfront so I don't have to scroll-click-scroll...

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So we are almost a month till results and this is my fifth time waiting for them and im already stressing/freaking out! You figure I would be over it by now. Im just tired of taking this darn test twice a year! Anybody else im the same situation?

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25 days to go.....STILL

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What I can not understand about this process is why we let it happen the way it does. We allow the Board to dictate to us how the exam is structured, what the critierion is for a pass/fail result without telling us how they reach that conclusion, and when they will give us the results of the exam.

However, the Board does not care about us in anyway shape or form. It could be argued that they in fact hope for our failures as it is in their best interest if we fail. If the number of new engineers each year receiving their licenses is low than the demand for engineering goes up and so does the value of the work performed and the subsequent fee they can charge for their services. Their interests are their own and no one elses. They are the holders of the golden key and they choose to give it out as they see fit. The Board does not care if we pass or fail. So why do we allow them to be our mentors and our betters?

The purpose of the exam is to show that we have met the minimum requirments to practice eningeering so that we may take responsiblity for our decisions. The Board does not garentee in anyway that we are compident or skill enough to actually practice engineering, only that we were able to proceed through their processes to a favorible conclusion. We can be sued, fined, stripped of our legal ability to practice engineering, and even jailed if our actions as engineers are deterimental to the common good. But, the Board, who acts as the judge and jury of our actions, fails to carry the same responsiblity for our actions as we do, even though they certify that we are capable.

Regardless of my opinion of the Board, the fact is by delaying the results of the exam so long after the exam results for other states have long since been posted it becomes clear that the interests of the Board is to limit the number of people actually passing the exam. Every second that the Board delays in providing the results limits the ability of engineers who did not pass from gaining the insight into where to put their studing efforts and by doing so reducing the number of people that will actually pass the exam the next time. I do not know if the actions of the Board are intented as punitive, but it appears they maybe. As results were available at the end of June, the Board could have chosen to meet then, but they didn't. But, why do we let it happen? Aren't the Board members just engineers who have already passed the exam? Is compassion and empathy lost for all souls who can't put the letters PE after their name by the ones that can?

The system is tuff enough without the apathetic stance of the Board.

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Wow. Hear, hear BigChil. Well thought out post. I find any State body in California is bogged down in red tape and completely incapable of functioning smoothly, so the board's delay does not surprise. I'm not sure if their motives are as nefarious as you claim; I think it's more likely that they are affected by the same bureaucratic malaise as the majority of the state employees (I say this as a local government employee)

It won't change either... I think most people (well, me) won't want to complain too much until they pass the exam, so that the 'squeaky wheel's results don't 'accidentally' get lost. Then, once you pass... the motivation to make a big deal about it has passed.

I guess we should all be technically studying for the October exam right after taking the April exam, "just in case", but how likely is that. We all have busy lives and studying for the PE is no fun for anybody. Let's just hope that we get good news on August 5...

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BigChil...you have struck the right cord of thoughts....I haven't thought as well and as deep as you have but it does makes me mad to think that whole world knows their results but us....the scrolling banner up at the top for all who have passed feels insulting right now (not to offend anybody who had passed...I am happy for all of you who had passed...good job)....I don't know if we as a public can attend the board meeting on July 31st....I believe you can...but I am not sure if you just walk in or you need to have invitation from board before you can attend the meeting as public member....I do want to let those guys know that how does it affects the people who they are supposed to represent and whose interest they should protect....I believe that those board members are not aware as how delaying the release of results effects the people emotionally knowing that their results are being withheld for no rhyme or reason.....

It is easier said than done to study immediately after you take your exam....I had planned to study also starting may 1st after the exam...never happened so far....you guys know why...until you get your results you have a hope of seeing light at the end of the tunnel.....I am having dreams about going to my mailbox and not able to find my letter....

If we can all email and tell board to have a decency of at least educating us (the prospective licensed engineers...who are desperately trying to work for the industry in this state) as why it takes so long to release the results.....

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As it was obvious in my previous posting that I am unhappy with the state of the system in California the question is how do we/they make it better? Here are my suggestions for the Board.

1. Provide detailed descriptions/statistics of our failures on the test. The testing agency provides us with simplistic statistical data on the categories in each discipline, but these statistics give us no insight into our mistakes. How are we to learn if we are not told/shown where we have failed. I am not suggesting that the Board educates us in how to fix our failings, just that they tells us what our failings are. Even if I passed I would be interested in my failings to learn from them.

2. Provided us with a form of appeal. Currently, there is no appeal process for the PE exam. In my case, there was a question that I know that I missed because in the testing process I was unable to walk away and rethink my approach to a specific problem. Upon further review, I was able to solve this relatively easy problem in a matter of a couple of minutes a few days later after the pressure of the test had passed. My point here is that if I did not pass by one question that I would like the chance for my complaint and explanation to be heard.

3. Define what the requirements for passing are. This board is filled with posted speculation as to what constitutes a passing grade and what doesn't. We are given some arbitrary point of reference that 70% is passing, but we don't really know. Further, because we can not appeal the results nor are we told what questions we missed we don't have any insight as how to educate ourselves and better our results. Moreover, we are forced to take the Board at it's word that our results are accurate. We don't live in a perfect world; the fact is that errors are unavoidable and should be anticipated. Why then must we assume that the Board is perfect, because we know that it can not be.

4. Make knowledge the prime criterion, not cheating. I have taken the test twice, in both cases I felt as though I was being watched by big brother. I did not feel relaxed nor at ease to solve engineering problems. I felt that I was un-trusted in my ability to solve the problems without some outside help. I do not condone nor support fraudulent behavior and would have turned in anyone that I saw was actually cheating, but in the legal system aren't we innocent until proven guilty? Cautious diligence is one thing, but oppressive suspicion is another.

5. Let us talk about the problems and our solutions. We are restricted from discussing the specifics of any question for fear that the question and answer would get out. But aren't they already out there? Go to any engineering book store and you will find 10 different solution manuals to very similar questions. In fact the testing agency it's self provides sample exams with solutions. Again, this overly cautious behavior comes from the point of view that we will cheat if given the chance. I offer this point of view. If the test and the approach were made such that we did not feel oppressed we would have no reason to try and get ahead.

Let's try to move past the current paradigm because it is elitist and is contrary to the actual ideals of engineering. As engineers we solve problems. That is what we do. So why do we have to accept this model as the best model. No model is perfect, but every model can be improved upon.

Here is my new paradigm. We are administered the test and are given a preliminary result within a week or two, as this is a scantron test and getting the answers is a relatively easy process. These are unverified results but they give us immediate feed back. We are allowed to take the test booklet with us to review the questions that we missed in case we want to appeal the results. Results can then be analyzed and the process can proceed similar to it is now. NCEES and the state boards can each review and certify the results in their own sweet time, but we the engineers have a benchmark of our performance. We know right then and there if we are going to have to study for a retake or if we passed. Moreover, we must redefine what it means to be a professional engineer. An engineer is someone who understands and is able to use the natural relationships to solve problems. We are thoughtful and intelligent individuals who find pleasure in using our minds to make the world a better place. True some of us are deceptive and dishonest, but that is no different in our profession than in every other. We as engineers must search for better paradigms and relationships between forces and the natural laws because that is what we do.

We should not let the current paradigm dictate the next; because, in ones failings one finds one’s self, but in ones ignorance we find nothing at all.

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THese are the same things people have been complaining about for years. Everybody threatens to make this their mission in life. After they pass, they do nothing, and nothing happens. Let us all know how your assault on the board meeting works out.

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