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eng.dork

# of PE's in U.S.?

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Yeah, and if you do jump over the bush, be careful what you land in!

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Bill Gates wants to have no limits whatsoever on H1B visas. He would like for everyone to work for Microsoft for minimum wage.

Couldn't disagree w/ you more strongly here Brody - I have family @ MS, and that company goes out of its way for its employees and their morale. High stress for sure, but benefits benefits benefits, and the pay is anything but minimum wage - few years back, folks w/ comp sci degrees (or similar) were netting $80K right out of school! thats only gone up.

Somebody here said something about engineering grads pulling in highest starting salaries - Highly unlikely - again look to the computer related degrees, construction, welding, or even allied health programs to not only net same or higher starting pay, but gauranteed employment to boot. I mean c'mon folks, people walking out of high school could once upon a time pull in $40K starting pay in our former industry / manufacturing heavy glory days.

Its a sign that our profession is truly in a transitional state - trapped between a mediocre paying technical field (spurred by offshoring) and a true professional calling worthy of commanding top dollar, akin to laywers et al. I feel it to be a calling still, but the liability vs. pay don't make it too much fun.

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Guest J.Smith
The important statistic is that there are more engineers graduating than new engineering jobs. Add to this all of the H1B visas that allow thousands of foreign engineers to work in this country for discounted wages, and unfortunately we end up being of less value than we wouild like. This is why we don't get paid as much as lawyers, for example. Lawyers don't allow foreign lawyers to come and work at a discounted rate. We engineers don't stick up for ourselves. Soon we'll be working for miminum wage.

Sorry to be a killjoy.

I will tell you that based on my experience (10 years in the private sector, consulting), I have not seen that many foreign engineers working for the companies that I have worked for, and mind you, I live in New York the capital city of the world. Most of the engineers with whom I have worked with are Americans and a very small percentage are foreigners. I must say that their technical skills are good, language decent. I would have to disagree with your reasoning with your comparison with the attorney profession. We have a legal system different from most of the rest of the world. A good section of Europe and South America their legal system is based on Roman Law and here is mainly Constitutional Law. To be honest with you, I don't think there is a legal system in the world that can be compare to ours. On the other hand engineering is the same anywhere, math is math, physics is physics, chemistry is chemistry no matter where you are. Look at medicine, you have people from all over the world practicing in the U.S.

Well these are my two cents.

John S.

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The important statistic is that there are more engineers graduating than new engineering jobs. Add to this all of the H1B visas that allow thousands of foreign engineers to work in this country for discounted wages, and unfortunately we end up being of less value than we wouild like. This is why we don't get paid as much as lawyers, for example. Lawyers don't allow foreign lawyers to come and work at a discounted rate. We engineers don't stick up for ourselves. Soon we'll be working for miminum wage.

Sorry to be a killjoy.

H1B visa holders should not be paid lower than engineers in the USA. If so, the company sponsoring this H1B visa holders will be fined by the USCIS. This is to safeguard the wellfares of all engineers as a whole. So if you personally know of any underpaid H1B then this person is being exploited for the benefit of the bottom line figures at the expense of the H1B holder ( in the short term) and at the expense of the engineers here in the long term. It is up to those who are here to rectify this problem by reporting it to USCIS before wages all go down/everybody suffers.

The only person who will benefit from this are the CEOs of the company. All those savings will make him look good and make his bonus justifiable. The question is who wants to make the first move?

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I will tell you that based on my experience (10 years in the private sector, consulting), I have not seen that many foreign engineers working for the companies that I have worked for, and mind you, I live in New York the capital city of the world. Most of the engineers with whom I have worked with are Americans and a very small percentage are foreigners. I must say that their technical skills are good, language decent. I would have to disagree with your reasoning with your comparison with the attorney profession. We have a legal system different from most of the rest of the world. A good section of Europe and South America their legal system is based on Roman Law and here is mainly Constitutional Law. To be honest with you, I don't think there is a legal system in the world that can be compare to ours. On the other hand engineering is the same anywhere, math is math, physics is physics, chemistry is chemistry no matter where you are. Look at medicine, you have people from all over the world practicing in the U.S.

Well these are my two cents.

John S.

I agree with you. The laws of engineering/ science is universal and America has always been and will always be a country built by immigrants we have to accept this fact and live, survive and succeed under this premise. If you look at history, America became great because of migrants (example - Einstein). So we should not be afraid of competition because it brings out the best in us.

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