CPEES feedback

Hello everyone, I will appreciate any feedback or info that anyone might have about CPEES, I had my bachelor in Civil Engineering from Egypt which is a 5 year degree, I had my degree evaluated long time ago by World Education Services (long before CPEES was around) and they gave me a favorite review basically saying that my degree is equivelant to accredited engineering degrees in the US, I gave that to the board in Ohio and they were satisfied with it, they let me take the FE and I passed, unfortunately I waited too long to take my PE, now the board wants me to have my degree re-evaluated by CPEES, it's only been a week since I submitted my trascripts to CPEES but as you can imagine I'm very anxious, I heard people say the CPEES evaluations are almost never favorable and they always come back saying that you're lacking a certain amount of credit hours in Humanitarian Science or whatever and I wonder if that happens to me then what's next? thanks in advance.

It is true. I barely heard any person passed CPEES. But as long as your degree is certified as a four-year engineering degree, the Boards usually will be fine with it if you have enough experience here.

jascia1919 said:

It is true. I barely heard any person passed CPEES. But as long as your degree is certified as a four-year engineering degree, the Boards usually will be fine with it if you have enough experience here.

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Based on Latest figures released by CPEES, they find about 21 percent of reviewed applications "Substantially Equivalent" to ABET accredited undergraduate programs..They have not provided a Country by Country breakdown..However maximum applications for review have been from India and China..Rumor has it that some programs in India will be soon part of the Washington Accord..and as such will not require any review..You may want to check if Eqypt is a signotory to the Washington Accord or may become one in the near future..This could potentially save you 375$

As per my conversations with the Board, most foriegn Engineering degrees are lacking in Social Subjects (varying from Civil Science to Humanity)..Engineering Credits are usually found to be at par if records are supplied along with proper translations and directly by the University (which can be a big issue, applications lacking proper documents will not be reviewed at all and become dormant in 6 months)..It is then left to the Licensing Boards to decide whether they will consider a degree lacking in Social Science credits as Equivalent or not..Its entirely at the Board's descretion once Cpees sends its evaluation..

jascia1919 said:

It is true. I barely heard any person passed CPEES. But as long as your degree is certified as a four-year engineering degree, the Boards usually will be fine with it if you have enough experience here.

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I am so frustrated with the CPEES requirement that the transcripts should be mailed directly by the University in India. I recently asked them if they have a job opening for me as an evaluator.

My case is, I hold advanced (Ph.D.) degree from US University with nearly 4 GPA, passed both EIT and PE in one shot and holds masters degree from one of indias topmost school. I am seeking comity in another states and that state require CPEES evaluation. Interestingly, Ohio board allowed me to take PE without CPEES evaluation simply because I hold advanced degree from US university whose undergraduate program is ABET accredited.

I have absolutely no problem to evaluate my credential but arranging to send the transcripts and other information from University in India is asking for too much.

I did extensive research on CPEES evaluators and none of those evaluators have advanced degree and none holds any kind of registration (EIT/PE). On top of this none of the credential evalutors have education in engineering?. I am not sure what qualification they have which the board do not posses to evaluate the document on their own.

You as an Engineer you can see my transcripts and comment that my courses are trash and I need additional coursework in thermodynamics or whatever. It is acceptable, but imagine a person who do not understand the difference between stress and strain, and whose entire education is primarily in the area of humanity how competant he/she is to evaluate your engneering documents?

Its very frustrating especially after passing the examination.

rajivmatta said:

Based on Latest figures released by CPEES, they find about 21 percent of reviewed applications "Substantially Equivalent" to ABET accredited undergraduate programs..They have not provided a Country by Country breakdown..However maximum applications for review have been from India and China..Rumor has it that some programs in India will be soon part of the Washington Accord..and as such will not require any review..You may want to check if Eqypt is a signotory to the Washington Accord or may become one in the near future..This could potentially save you 375$
As per my conversations with the Board, most foriegn Engineering degrees are lacking in Social Subjects (varying from Civil Science to Humanity)..Engineering Credits are usually found to be at par if records are supplied along with proper translations and directly by the University (which can be a big issue, applications lacking proper documents will not be reviewed at all and become dormant in 6 months)..It is then left to the Licensing Boards to decide whether they will consider a degree lacking in Social Science credits as Equivalent or not..Its entirely at the Board's descretion once Cpees sends its evaluation..

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Rajiv

Please help me I am seeking comity in other state who requires CPEES evaluation. Please advise. I already passed PE this year.

I am so frustrated with the CPEES requirement that the transcripts should be mailed directly by the University in India. I recently asked them if they have a job opening for me as an evaluator.

My case is, I hold advanced (Ph.D.) degree from US University with nearly 4 GPA, passed both EIT and PE in one shot and holds masters degree from one of indias topmost school. I am seeking comity in another states and that state require CPEES evaluation. Interestingly, Ohio board allowed me to take PE without CPEES evaluation simply because I hold advanced degree from US university whose undergraduate program is ABET accredited.

I have absolutely no problem to evaluate my credential but arranging to send the transcripts and other information from University in India is asking for too much.

I did extensive research on CPEES evaluators and none of those evaluators have advanced degree and none holds any kind of registration (EIT/PE). On top of this none of the credential evalutors have education in engineering?. I am not sure what qualification they have which the board do not posses to evaluate the document on their own.

You as an Engineer you can see my transcripts and comment that my courses are trash and I need additional coursework in thermodynamics or whatever. It is acceptable, but imagine a person who do not understand the difference between stress and strain, and whose entire education is primarily in the area of humanity how competant he/she is to evaluate your engneering documents?

Its very frustrating especially after passing the examination.

Coolguru said:

I am so frustrated with the CPEES requirement that the transcripts should be mailed directly by the University in India. I recently asked them if they have a job opening for me as an evaluator.
My case is, I hold advanced (Ph.D.) degree from US University with nearly 4 GPA, passed both EIT and PE in one shot and holds masters degree from one of indias topmost school. I am seeking comity in another states and that state require CPEES evaluation. Interestingly, Ohio board allowed me to take PE without CPEES evaluation simply because I hold advanced degree from US university whose undergraduate program is ABET accredited.

I have absolutely no problem to evaluate my credential but arranging to send the transcripts and other information from University in India is asking for too much.

I did extensive research on CPEES evaluators and none of those evaluators have advanced degree and none holds any kind of registration (EIT/PE). On top of this none of the credential evalutors have education in engineering?. I am not sure what qualification they have which the board do not posses to evaluate the document on their own.

You as an Engineer you can see my transcripts and comment that my courses are trash and I need additional coursework in thermodynamics or whatever. It is acceptable, but imagine a person who do not understand the difference between stress and strain, and whose entire education is primarily in the area of humanity how competant he/she is to evaluate your engneering documents?

Its very frustrating especially after passing the examination.

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I say we sue them...I am serious, that's the only thing that I see changing thier attitutes..The whole thing is so flawed, they have no clue about how Universities in India or elsewhere around the world operate..Case in point, they need original Marksheets and Diploma send directly from my University in India..My University does not retain Marksheets and diploma, they are both handed to the canditate..CPEES refuses to accept these documents from me..My University refuses to send these documents to them, I was down there and spend good time and money trying to convience University officials to take my Marksheets from me, seal it in an envelop and let me ship it to CPEES, but they downright refused...now if CPEES would have done some research they would have already known that..Officials at CPEES don't have a clue of how different Universities and thier affiliated colleges work...They want me to get Syllabus and course descriptions send by my University to them..My university charged me a whopping 5 Rs per page to certify a photocopy of course description..trust me it adds up..If they are a professional orginisation as they claim to be they should have a central database of all course description of at least the major universities around the world..This rag-tag team of evaluators judges everything using a scewed american prism...I reckon these are grounds for a descrimination law suit and also Incompetence on thier part for not knowing how things work and having un-realistic expectations should be brought to light...Dont even get me started on the evaluators credentials..

I say we sue thier a**..Whose with me

rohitss said:

I reckon these are grounds for a descrimination law suit and also Incompetence on thier part for not knowing how things work and having un-realistic expectations should be brought to light...Dont even get me started on the evaluators credentials..

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Before you begin to cry foul and descrimination be advised - there are many AMERICAN candidates that face similar frustrations in the application by exam and endorsement areas for licensure. States are required to administer the licensing requirements and these requirements DO vary from state-to-state. The variations don't necessarily maintain 'equivalency' with regard to education, experience, or licensure either.

Right now there is a member of this board that holds a P.E. license in four states but the state he started a new job in has denied his application because his degree doesn't match the description laid out in the state's licensing provision. In other words, he is licensed in four other states but this state doesn't want to recognize the endorsement based on a technicality.

I will agree that the licensing procedures are often times onerus and unfair to the potential candidates, but to call it discriminatory is ignorant. Please stick to the facts of the situation.

Coolguru said:

Its very frustrating especially after passing the examination.

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I hope your situation is resolved to your satisfaction. As I stated above, when you move between different state jurisdictions, you are subject to a different set of licensing criteria - often times you can find yourself stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you really feel that your credentials have not been given thier due, I recommend seeking legal counsel.

Best regards,

JR

As a "representative" of a minority group I can tell you this:

The rules are there, for americans, foreigners, hispanics, etc. You are the interested party so it is your duty to provide the info required. To cry "foul" without doing that is the easy, but not the right way.

When I applied for a license in another state, first I studied their requirements, and did my homework obtaining all the documents I knew they were going to ask for. Was it easy? Nope. It did not go without obstacles but when I put my application I had everything they needed. Took time and effort, yes, but I wanted the license so I complied with what was needed.

Sorry mate. I don't want to look mean but complaining, crying and threatening with legal action will not make your request easier. Do all you need to do first. It does not matter if you passed the EIT and the PE the same day in one hour or if you were born being a PE. Provide the documents you are asked to provide and the pieces will fall in place.

I've got to admit it's a little ridiculous for a fellow with a PHD from an American university to have to have their undergrad evaluated ot this level. Especially when I know there are some very prestigious universities around the world - particularly in India.

But, I also have to agree with BIO and jr that you are probably not going to get anywhere suing them. I doubt any lawyer is going to take a case like that on contingency becuase nobody has an absolute RIGHT to a PE license. The state boards set the rules. Truthfully, I think a state board could say they didn't want anybody from a foreign university period and you wouldn't be able to win a lawsuit. Noy fair, and not likley to happen, but probably not illegal. The issue is not your race, it is where you went to school. So you'd be spenidng a bunch of money on a lawyer, which you could probably pay toward taking care of the problem.

As matter of fact, that's a good business - shepherding people through these evaluation processes. I'd be surprised if there weren't already companies that helped with that.

benbo said:

I've got to admit it's a little ridiculous for a fellow with a PHD from an American university to have to have their undergrad evaluated ot this level. Especially when I know there are some very prestigious universities around the world - particularly in India.
But, I also have to agree with BIO and jr that you are probably not going to get anywhere suing them. I doubt any lawyer is going to take a case like that on contingency becuase nobody has an absolute RIGHT to a PE license. The state boards set the rules. Truthfully, I think a state board could say they didn't want anybody from a foreign university period and you wouldn't be able to win a lawsuit. Noy fair, and not likley to happen, but probably not illegal. The issue is not your race, it is where you went to school. So you'd be spenidng a bunch of money on a lawyer, which you could probably pay toward taking care of the problem.

As matter of fact, that's a good business - shepherding people through these evaluation processes. I'd be surprised if there weren't already companies that helped with that.

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I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last message..I was assuming people reading the thread have experience with CPEES evaluations and other similar evaluations required by some states..For example in the State of Alabama a foreign graduate can have his transcripts evaluated from either CPEES or AACRAO..CPEES requires all docs mailed by University..AACRAO requires photocopies mailed by the candidate..I think unless you have gone through the process of actually traveling 8000 miles back home to try and conveince University officials to comply with CPEES requirements you dont know the boat that sinks me..My arguement is that does any of CPEES staff know how Universities operate in my part of the world...If not they have no right to have un-realistic demands...Its ok to have standards but why conflicting standards...A evaluation should be of the same level..why is there such stark difference between CPEES and AACRAO (which has been in business longer)..I think its because they have done thier homework and CPEES has not..

I am ok with the onus being on me..But when you have tried everything and still cant meet what the CPEES states as bare minimum..there is either something wrong with you, the way your University operates or CPEES....The point raised earlier by a member was its descrimination against the place you graduated..well I dont think growing up in India I had an option of attending a ABET accredited school or would have envisoned the nightmare that has followed since...I think there are still grounds for a lawsuit..especial since CPEES deoes not have any know-how of how things work..the process is un-realistic

As for a lawsuit working..just compliants were enough to shut down ECEI..remember

rohitss said:

I don't think I made myself clear enough in my last message..I was assuming people reading the thread have experience with CPEES evaluations and other similar evaluations required by some states..For example in the State of Alabama a foreign graduate can have his transcripts evaluated from either CPEES or AACRAO..CPEES requires all docs mailed by University..AACRAO requires photocopies mailed by the candidate..I think unless you have gone through the process of actually traveling 8000 miles back home to try and conveince University officials to comply with CPEES requirements you dont know the boat that sinks me..My arguement is that does any of CPEES staff know how Universities operate in my part of the world...If not they have no right to have un-realistic demands...Its ok to have standards but why conflicting standards...A evaluation should be of the same level..why is there such stark difference between CPEES and AACRAO (which has been in business longer)..I think its because they have done thier homework and CPEES has not..
I am ok with the onus being on me..But when you have tried everything and still cant meet what the CPEES states as bare minimum..there is either something wrong with you, the way your University operates or CPEES....The point raised earlier by a member was its descrimination against the place you graduated..well I dont think growing up in India I had an option of attending a ABET accredited school or would have envisoned the nightmare that has followed since...I think there are still grounds for a lawsuit..especial since CPEES deoes not have any know-how of how things work..the process is un-realistic

As for a lawsuit working..just compliants were enough to shut down ECEI..remember

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Good luck with your lawsuit. Something tells me you won't be getting around to it.

So what if you shut someone down? I don't see how that helps you with getting your license.

benbo said:

Good luck with your lawsuit. Something tells me you won't be getting around to it.So what if you shut someone down? I don't see how that helps you with getting your license.

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That is why we have Courts..I dont see putting someone behind bars bringing a homecide victim back..Whats wrong is wrong and I sure as hell dont want others from my part of the World to go through the same BS that I did...You may be right I might not file a suit after all..But I dont see how you being cynical helps..Do you have any options I should consider??..Other than just waiting another 8 years to sit for the PE or moving to Alabama

rohitss said:

Do you have any options I should consider??..Other than just waiting another 8 years to sit for the PE or moving to Alabama

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Good point - I wouldn't want to move to Alabama either ...

On a more serious note, I am not here to bust on you - my only real point was that you shouldn't call the process 'prejudicial' when that same process applies equally to all applicants regardless of your nation of origin. If you have read any of my other threads, you will know that I am very much in favor of streamlining the licensure process because it shouldn't be so difficult to apply and demonstrate competency.

The other person I referred to trying to obtain PE by comity already changed jobs, moved his family, and bought a new house on the premise that his application by endorsement should be readily granted. This new position is a senior-level position and requires professional certification - his whole world can potentially be turned upside down if his endorsement application is not granted upon appeal.

So, in closing, I agree with you that the process is unfair in many respects - there should be some standardization amongst the states. NCEES is the organization that is fostering that coordination but it is still lacking. I am also saying that by getting excited and saying this is a prejudicial act or that it is more burdensome for you than others ... maybe, maybe not. Each person has thier own road and trials.

Again, I say stick with the facts.

I wish you luck in a satisfactory resolution.

JR

jregieng said:

Good point - I wouldn't want to move to Alabama either ...
On a more serious note, I am not here to bust on you - my only real point was that you shouldn't call the process 'prejudicial' when that same process applies equally to all applicants regardless of your nation of origin. If you have read any of my other threads, you will know that I am very much in favor of streamlining the licensure process because it shouldn't be so difficult to apply and demonstrate competency.

The other person I referred to trying to obtain PE by comity already changed jobs, moved his family, and bought a new house on the premise that his application by endorsement should be readily granted. This new position is a senior-level position and requires professional certification - his whole world can potentially be turned upside down if his endorsement application is not granted upon appeal.

So, in closing, I agree with you that the process is unfair in many respects - there should be some standardization amongst the states. NCEES is the organization that is fostering that coordination but it is still lacking. I am also saying that by getting excited and saying this is a prejudicial act or that it is more burdensome for you than others ... maybe, maybe not. Each person has thier own road and trials.

Again, I say stick with the facts.

I wish you luck in a satisfactory resolution.

JR

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I have to agree with JR on this one. As someone who has gone through this process I know its really frustrating at times. You know I have had my transcripts evaluated 3 times now from 3 different places. State of South Carolina for my FE, TrustforTE for immigration and now CPEES for PE in TN. But the way I look at it is the system is in place to protect people. It is the states responsibility to ensure that Engineers operating in the state are qualified so as to not endager public safety. If this means applying strict standards for a unknown (foreign educated professionals) its a price worth paying.

Yes there are different standards for different states. You would be better off pleading your case with the State and showing them how it is different and perhaps easier in Bama to get licensure. But suing CPEES wont solve anything. Like JR pointed out they have the same standards for everyone..If you and me are having a harder time than someone from Eqypt than thats the fault of your University, maybe you should take them to court instead.

Again I am not here to merely discourage you, I do offer a solution. Every state board meets at least twice a year to review rules and regulations reagrding licensure. Bring your case up to such a panel, also if you can muster support from others in your state in a similar position take them with you. Any board will not deny a reasonable argument especially if it affects everyone from one particualar area. That is the best advice I can give you

BTW I am still waiting for my review results, I will keep you updated

I went through a lot with both ECEI and later with CPEES. In 2002 my degree was fully accrediated, then I applied for both FE and PE and passed. In 2004 I needed some more copies of the evaluations, they said I need to pay another $375, being a good citizen, I did. Then they decided that my degree is not accrediated anymore. Fine whatever I am good citizen, I don't sue people. Then I decided to have NCEES records program so that I can move my license easier, guess what they said have it evaluated again. This time, they decided that all engineering course work is fine, but more humanities, of course being a good citizen, I didn't get angry or anything but found mistakes in their evaluation such as "surveying course" I took is under "other" not under "surveying" category. Again, being a good American who was unlucky enough to follow his fathers missions, I got another re-evaluation but this time I got another one that doesnt' match with previous ones.

So dear friends, sorry for my language but we are dealing with so much discremination, it is not even funny anymore. I am an American as it gets, we are all good people who studied MS, PHD in this country, passed the exams, work as an engineer sign off on projects for the good of the people that we love, and in return we get treated as second class citizens.

Anyways, sorry sometimes engineers need to vent too...

da_engineer said:

I went through a lot with both ECEI and later with CPEES. In 2002 my degree was fully accrediated, then I applied for both FE and PE and passed. In 2004 I needed some more copies of the evaluations, they said I need to pay another $375, being a good citizen, I did. Then they decided that my degree is not accrediated anymore. Fine whatever I am good citizen, I don't sue people. Then I decided to have NCEES records program so that I can move my license easier, guess what they said have it evaluated again. This time, they decided that all engineering course work is fine, but more humanities, of course being a good citizen, I didn't get angry or anything but found mistakes in their evaluation such as "surveying course" I took is under "other" not under "surveying" category. Again, being a good American who was unlucky enough to follow his fathers missions, I got another re-evaluation but this time I got another one that doesnt' match with previous ones.
So dear friends, sorry for my language but we are dealing with so much discremination, it is not even funny anymore. I am an American as it gets, we are all good people who studied MS, PHD in this country, passed the exams, work as an engineer sign off on projects for the good of the people that we love, and in return we get treated as second class citizens.

Anyways, sorry sometimes engineers need to vent too...

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Gentlemen,

I have gone thru same rackless and irresponsible attitude of CPEES. I have graduate degree in structural engineering with 19 years of work experience (I do not have any North American degree). I passed my FE and PE in first attempt. CPEES tells me that I have certain credit defficiencies in Math and basic science and Humanities. I found the personnel working at CPEES below par in their qualifications (extremely dangerous). They even do not know which courses get grouped together. Nobody signs the evaluation (that shows how much confident they are). Unfortunately the state-Boards buy this piece of crap, which worth **** without evaluater's signature on it. New Jersey Board no longer use CPEES (recently they dropped CPEES because of inconsistant eveluation)

Well, folks, we all need to educate the state boards and NCEES regarding the CPEES' modes operandi in evaluating foreign degrees.

We need to convince the state boards that accepting the conclusion of the irresponsible evaluation by CPEES is unfair to the professional careers of those candidated who have earned foreign under grad degrees.

da_engineer said:

So dear friends, sorry for my language but we are dealing with so much discremination, it is not even funny anymore. I am an American as it gets, we are all good people who studied MS, PHD in this country, passed the exams, work as an engineer sign off on projects for the good of the people that we love, and in return we get treated as second class citizens.
Anyways, sorry sometimes engineers need to vent too...

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Agreed that the process is flawed, but it doesn't help your case to decry "discrimination" when, in fact, you are not being treated differently by CPEES than any other applicant. If you read Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 you'll find reference to national origin discrimination for employment, but it doesn't address the issue of different application processes for licensure by state boards.

All this talk of lawsuits... I ask only this: What law is being violated?

For good or bad, there is too much bureaucracy at the State Boards... the only solution is a federal licensing organization - and that just doesn't seem likely to happen.

Be like the willow tree... bend but don't break. Perseverance will be rewarded!

IlPadrino said:

Agreed that the process is flawed, but it doesn't help your case to decry "discrimination" when, in fact, you are not being treated differently by CPEES than any other applicant. If you read Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 you'll find reference to national origin discrimination for employment, but it doesn't address the issue of different application processes for licensure by state boards.
All this talk of lawsuits... I ask only this: What law is being violated?

For good or bad, there is too much bureaucracy at the State Boards... the only solution is a federal licensing organization - and that just doesn't seem likely to happen.

Be like the willow tree... bend but don't break. Perseverance will be rewarded!

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Be like the willow tree... bend but don't break. Perseverance will be rewarded!....I guess you are right, we will all be licensed after 15 years of Engineering experience anyway right..I don't think IlPadrino understands how detrimental not having a PE can be to your life, your goals and your carrer..how oppurtunities pass you by just because of some sensless inconsistent regulation....You get shafted on projects, promotions, managerial and leadership oppurtunites just for not having a PE....As everyone who has gone through or is going through the process will tell you CPEES can suck the life right out of you...

Lets not decry "Discrimination" lets decry "Incompetence"..They do not have a clue about what thy are doing..Why is it that the same organization can come back with two seperate assesments for the same credentials..I will tell you..it depends on who you get as your evaluator..Mine is right now out of the Country..I guess he/she is on a spring break of sorts..mean while the deadline for PE Applications loom in the background..These evaluators are not engineers and if you have a phd in humanities obviously you will find others lacking sufficient coursework in humanities..hell how the hell does humanites or any of the other crap help me design a bridge..how is that a safety concern to the state..Whats next I am deficient in American history..becuase without that I wont know what the Manning's equation is right

The whole scene is littered with double standards and inconsitency..not to mention it should be illegal for states to give a monopoly to cpees to be the sole conductors of credential review (Alabama and North Carolina have multiple agencies)..I agree we have to bring this to the state boards attention..I am attending the next hearing...A law suit is not off the cards entirely....I am waiting for my evaluator to come back from his/her sweet vaction and see how many more times he wants to me to travel 8000 miles and get him more proof that I actually am and engineer..

rohitss said:

The whole scene is littered with double standards and inconsitency..not to mention it should be illegal for states to give a monopoly to cpees to be the sole conductors of credential review (Alabama and North Carolina have multiple agencies)

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Every state board has acquiesced (given a monopoly) to NCEES to develop and grade the FE and PE examinations. Do you believe that is illegal as well? If so, you are going to be running into quite a few legalities on your quest for licensure.

It is best not to tilt at windmills and keep your eye on the prize - licensure. I have no problem with pointing out the inherent problems in the system and working in the system - in fact I encourage it. When you begin to call it a case of prejudice or suggest the state has abdicated its' authority to administer and regulate professional licensure, I think you are treading on thin ice. As you push that notion you will end up falling into the deep end and will lose the prize.

:2cents:

JR

jregieng said:

Every state board has acquiesced (given a monopoly) to NCEES to develop and grade the FE and PE examinations. Do you believe that is illegal as well? If so, you are going to be running into quite a few legalities on your quest for licensure.
It is best not to tilt at windmills and keep your eye on the prize - licensure. I have no problem with pointing out the inherent problems in the system and working in the system - in fact I encourage it. When you begin to call it a case of prejudice or suggest the state has abdicated its' authority to administer and regulate professional licensure, I think you are treading on thin ice. As you push that notion you will end up falling into the deep end and will lose the prize.

:2cents:

JR

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Its like comparing apples and oranges or banana's and rocks.....Its like me arguing against a telecom monopoly and you calling the fed a monopoly..All standardize exam whether it be the GMAT,GRE,SAT or FE/PE are always administered by a single agency...thats why they are called u guessed it standarized...I do not consider that a monopoly..however I may consider it unfair if some states were to offer a test that was easier than that conducted by NCEEES...just like I would consider the offering of mutliple evaluation agencies in some states and a virtual monopoly for cpees in others as unfair...

If you encourage people to point out flaws in the system you should be loving this....Let me ask you one simple question...Are you in favor of all states adopting the Alabama model (competetion which will lead to effeciency) or are you just in favor of whatever the board decides....