NECEES Mechanical PE Reference Manual Released - Page 3 - Mechanical - Engineer Boards
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NECEES Mechanical PE Reference Manual Released

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19 hours ago, Audi driver, P.E. said:

Equations 18.49 thru 18.54 are Pump Similarity laws, not Pump Affinity laws. The Handbook table being discussed shows equations for Pump Affinity laws. And the table is correct.

Agreed. I haven’t said they’re wrong.

I guess I was “thinking out loud” and figuring out when to use similarity and when to use affinity. Still not clear.

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7 hours ago, Dr. Barber said:

Agreed. I haven’t said they’re wrong.

I guess I was “thinking out loud” and figuring out when to use similarity and when to use affinity. Still not clear.

Knowing when to use the similarity laws vice affinity laws is important for the exam, to be sure. Generally speaking if you have more than 1 parameter changing at a time (propeller diameter and shaft speed, for example) you need to use the similarity laws.

 

Note: the MERM seems to suggest the word "homologous" is something to key on. I wouldn't bet on that for the PE exam, but it is applicable.

Edited by Audi driver, P.E.

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On 5/9/2019 at 2:11 PM, Audi driver, P.E. said:

Knowing when to use the similarity laws vice affinity laws is important for the exam, to be sure. Generally speaking if you have more than 1 parameter changing at a time (propeller diameter and shaft speed, for example) you need to use the similarity laws.

 

Note: the MERM seems to suggest the word "homologous" is something to key on. I wouldn't bet on that for the PE exam, but it is applicable.

Some more clarification:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=89032

 

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Anyone taking the October 2019 exam, this would be a handy reference book that you could use, in addition to other resources. 

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20 hours ago, Atf TX said:

Anyone taking the October 2019 exam, this would be a handy reference book that you could use, in addition to other resources. 

If you correct all the errors in it, yes.

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On 7/2/2019 at 2:07 PM, Atf TX said:

Anyone taking the October 2019 exam, this would be a handy reference book that you could use, in addition to other resources. 

Used it for my April 2019 MDM exam and passed. You just have to practice with it and all the errors will come up and you can correct it. Think of it as a treasure hunt.

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I went over the reference manual, having taken the October 2019 pe exam, i am convinced that NCEES will be changing the type of questions asked for the CBT style exam due to some of the 2019 October exam questions not being covered by the reference manual. Besides the computer glitches ( the screen may freeze or load slowly while scrolling down) and using a marker on a plastic pad, the CBT style exams should be easier. I don’t think they can ask a question outside the reference manual. You can use that to your advantage. 

Edited by asu
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On 11/9/2019 at 1:46 PM, asu said:

I went over the reference manual, having taken the October 2019 pe exam, i am convinced that NCEES will be changing the type of questions asked for the CBT style exam due to some of the 2019 October exam questions not being covered by the reference manual. Besides the computer glitches ( the screen may freeze or load slowly while scrolling down) and using a marker on a plastic pad, the CBT style exams should be easier. I don’t think they can ask a question outside the reference manual. You can use that to your advantage. 

True. However they may ask questions outside the reference manual. It clearly stated on the front page of the manual that It may not be sufficient to solve all the questions. So basically they still CAN/MAY ask anything they want and no one can argue with it. Sorry...

Edited by TX_PE_Oct19
wording
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20 hours ago, TX_PE_Oct19 said:

True. However they may ask questions outside the reference manual. It clearly stated on the front page of the manual that It may not be sufficient to solve all the questions. So basically they still CAN/MAY ask anything they want and no one can argue with it. Sorry...

Asking questions outside of the reference manual WAS only valid for the April 2019 and October 2019 exams as shown below; 

Using the Handbook for the April and October 2019 Paper Exams
The Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) Mechanical exam is an open-book pencil-and-paper exam through October
2019. The PE Mechanical Reference Handbook is a reference you may use on exam day. It contains charts, formulas, tables, and
other information that may help you answer questions on the PE Mechanical exam. However, it does not contain all information
required to answer every question; theories, conversions, formulas, and definitions that examinees are expected to know have
not been included.
This PE Mechanical Reference Handbook is intended solely for use on the NCEES PE Mechanical exam. You may bring your
personal copy of the Handbook into the exam room as long as it is bound and remains bound according to the policies in the
NCEES Examinee Guide. Additional references that adhere to policies in the Examinee Guide are allowed in the exam room for
the April and October 2019 exam.

If you read it that is the case only for the April and October 2019 Paper exams.

For the computer based exam it says the following; 

Using the Handbook for the April 2020 Computer-Based Exam
Beginning in April 2020, the PE Mechanical exam will be computer-based, and the PE Mechanical Reference Handbook will
be the only resource material you may use during the exam. Reviewing it before exam day will help you become familiar with
reference information provided. You will not be allowed to bring a copy of the Handbook into the exam room. Instead, the
computer-based exam will include a PDF version of the Handbook for your use. The PE Mechanical Reference Handbook is
intended solely for use on the NCEES PE Mechanical exam.

 

Edited by asu
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1 hour ago, asu said:

Asking questions outside of the reference manual WAS only valid for the April 2019 and October 2019 exams as shown below; 

Using the Handbook for the April and October 2019 Paper Exams
The Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) Mechanical exam is an open-book pencil-and-paper exam through October
2019. The PE Mechanical Reference Handbook is a reference you may use on exam day. It contains charts, formulas, tables, and
other information that may help you answer questions on the PE Mechanical exam. However, it does not contain all information
required to answer every question; theories, conversions, formulas, and definitions that examinees are expected to know have
not been included.
This PE Mechanical Reference Handbook is intended solely for use on the NCEES PE Mechanical exam. You may bring your
personal copy of the Handbook into the exam room as long as it is bound and remains bound according to the policies in the
NCEES Examinee Guide. Additional references that adhere to policies in the Examinee Guide are allowed in the exam room for
the April and October 2019 exam.

If you read it that is the case only for the April and October 2019 Paper exams.

For the computer based exam it says the following; 

Using the Handbook for the April 2020 Computer-Based Exam
Beginning in April 2020, the PE Mechanical exam will be computer-based, and the PE Mechanical Reference Handbook will
be the only resource material you may use during the exam. Reviewing it before exam day will help you become familiar with
reference information provided. You will not be allowed to bring a copy of the Handbook into the exam room. Instead, the
computer-based exam will include a PDF version of the Handbook for your use. The PE Mechanical Reference Handbook is
intended solely for use on the NCEES PE Mechanical exam.

 

That says that the Mechanical Reference Handbook is the only reference you're allowed to use and will be provided electronically, but I don't read anything that says that everything you need to know is contained in it. I'm sure NCEES can ask whatever they want including questions that may be outside the scope of the provided reference.

Edited by jean15paul_PE
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16 minutes ago, jean15paul_PE said:

That says that the Mechanical Reference Handbook is the only reference you're allowed to use and will be provided electronically, but I don't read anything that says that everything you need to know is contained in it. I'm sure NCEES can ask whatever they want including questions that may be outside the scope of the provided reference.

Then what is the purpose of the given reference manual versus bringing your own material? They can still do computer based exams and let you bring your own material. It doesn't make sense to me. 

Edited by asu
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13 minutes ago, asu said:

Then what is the purpose of the given reference manual versus bringing your own material? They can still do computer based exams and let you bring your own material. It doesn't make sense to me. 

That is a good question. My guess, easier administration. They can allow any CBT center to administer the test with little-to-no special training.

If you allow people to bring their own materials then you need proctors to know what is and isn't allowed (e.g. it needs to be bound; staples don't count; are handwritten references ok; pencil or pen; etc). Also you have to worry about testers writing down problems, so proctors have to be constantly paying attention.

With only the electronic reference allowed, it doesn't matter what you do while you're testing as long as you enter and exit empty handed.

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47 minutes ago, jean15paul_PE said:

That is a good question. My guess, easier administration. They can allow any CBT center to administer the test with little-to-no special training.

If you allow people to bring their own materials then you need proctors to know what is and isn't allowed (e.g. it needs to be bound; staples don't count; are handwritten references ok; pencil or pen; etc). Also you have to worry about testers writing down problems, so proctors have to be constantly paying attention.

With only the electronic reference allowed, it doesn't matter what you do while you're testing as long as you enter and exit empty handed.

I refuse to believe NCEES can ask questions which requires equations or conversions outside of the reference manual to be solved. Some questions may not need equations but common knowledge on the subject but numerical questions should be covered by the equations shown in the reference manual. Maybe ChemE and other disciplines taking the CBT exam can shed a light over this. 

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There are some questions in the exam just to take your time and stress you out. Those questions designed to test your ability to pass, don't be stress, using your time efficiently, etc. So, IF they ask something out of the reference manual (probably a few) you need to identify it, pass it, If you have extra time at the end of the exam you may use your engineering judgment to solve/guess it to some extent.

So, yes I still believe that they can (and probably will) ask some questions off-scope of the provided reference manual. I may be wrong but this is how I interpret these type of exams, not only the PE.

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50 minutes ago, asu said:

I refuse to believe NCEES can ask questions which requires equations or conversions outside of the reference manual to be solved. Some questions may not need equations but common knowledge on the subject but numerical questions should be covered by the equations shown in the reference manual. Maybe ChemE and other disciplines taking the CBT exam can shed a light over this. 

Maybe you're right. I can't say that I know. I'd be curious to hear from some ChemE's also.

But IMO ... the thinking that "Every equation is in the book; I just need to find it and use it." sounds like a very FE thought process. The PE exam is testing you, your years of experience and your engineering knowledge. You have to know your shit. There are definitely problems that I'd describe as, "If you're going to call yourself a PE then you should know this, with or without a reference."
There's some stuff that a PE needs to know. There's other stuff that no one would be expected to remember.

Also keep in mind how the cut score is determined. The question that NCEES asks is "what percentage of competent PEs should be able to answer this question?" and then questions are weighted based on that (subjective) percentage. No one is expected to know everything. You don't have to score 100%. The expectation of how many people could answer is built into the scoring.

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1 hour ago, jean15paul_PE said:

Maybe you're right. I can't say that I know. I'd be curious to hear from some ChemE's also.

But IMO ... the thinking that "Every equation is in the book; I just need to find it and use it." sounds like a very FE thought process. The PE exam is testing you, your years of experience and your engineering knowledge. You have to know your shit. There are definitely problems that I'd describe as, "If you're going to call yourself a PE then you should know this, with or without a reference."
There's some stuff that a PE needs to know. There's other stuff that no one would be expected to remember.

Also keep in mind how the cut score is determined. The question that NCEES asks is "what percentage of competent PEs should be able to answer this question?" and then questions are weighted based on that (subjective) percentage. No one is expected to know everything. You don't have to score 100%. The expectation of how many people could answer is built into the scoring.

I wish that was the case but the PE exam is far away from needing the industry experience or testing your knowledge over it. For example most of the engineers that I worked with took it right after their FE exam without any experience. They took it when they were graduating. State of IL allows that. The questions are mostly basic questions but need to know what equation to use quickly and where to find them. It gets tricky when NCEES decides to change the exam formatting or doesn't stick with their own exam specifications. If the goal is to make it harder for the test takers, might as well also limit the licenses to people with MS, MENG or PHD degrees. 

Edited by asu

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16 hours ago, asu said:

I wish that was the case but the PE exam is far away from needing the industry experience or testing your knowledge over it. For example most of the engineers that I worked with took it right after their FE exam without any experience. They took it when they were graduating. State of IL allows that. The questions are mostly basic questions but need to know what equation to use quickly and where to find them. It gets tricky when NCEES decides to change the exam formatting or doesn't stick with their own exam specifications. If the goal is to make it harder for the test takers, might as well also limit the licenses to people with MS, MENG or PHD degrees. 

There are some who advocate for this and may not be an entirely bad idea.

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Has anyone noticed that table 1.2.1 Properties of Air at Atmospheric Pressure, the columns for Kinematic and Absolute Viscosity seem off? Nothing seems to match what I am getting using NIST Refprop. 

From what I can tell, it looks like the table says "centistokes" for kinematic viscosity but it should say "ft^2/sec" if the numbers are to be correct in the table. As for the absolute viscosity, they said "centipoise" but the numbers are for lbf-sec/ft^2.

Edited by OldSquaw

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1 hour ago, OldSquaw said:

Has anyone noticed that table 1.2.1 Properties of Air at Atmospheric Pressure, the columns for Kinematic and Absolute Viscosity seem off? Nothing seems to match what I am getting using NIST Refprop. 

From what I can tell, it looks like the table says "centistokes" for kinematic viscosity but it should say "ft^2/sec" if the numbers are to be correct in the table. As for the absolute viscosity, they said "centipoise" but the numbers are for lbf-sec/ft^2.

Agree with you 100%,
I will be adding this to my long list of errata and email them about it.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Barber said:

Agree with you 100%,
I will be adding this to my long list of errata and email them about it.

Thanks for your help Dr. Barber. I'll post here as I continue to find errors in this manual.

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Has anyone else tried to solve problems using the psychrometric chart in the reference manual? I tried using only the chart in the PDF, since that's all I will have on exam day. It's almost impossible to use, especially if you have to use the sensible heat ratio. Hopefully they will present the questions in a way that the PDF can actually be used. I just can't seem to use this chart without drawing on it and using a straight edge.

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3 hours ago, OldSquaw said:

Has anyone else tried to solve problems using the psychrometric chart in the reference manual? I tried using only the chart in the PDF, since that's all I will have on exam day. It's almost impossible to use, especially if you have to use the sensible heat ratio. Hopefully they will present the questions in a way that the PDF can actually be used. I just can't seem to use this chart without drawing on it and using a straight edge.

It’s a complete train wreck. You have to zoom in to get decent resolution of the lines, but when you do so, the humidity and dry bulb axes are off-screen. Like wtf?

It would be ridiculous if a question requires using the SHR protractor. I guess you’d have to use the miniature white board as a ruler.

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Table 6.2 on page 284, Flow Rate of Steam in Sch. 40 Pipe does not have any units for the flow. I know it's lb/hr, but it doesn't say that anywhere.

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Pages 381,382,383,385,386,387,389,390,391,393,394,395,397,398,399,401,402,403 Property charts for R22, R123, R134a, R410a, R717, R1234yf all have Enthalpy in units of Btu/lb-F. This is a typo and should read Btu/lb.

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