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Hemi79

Sealing Drawings, do you submit calcs? At same cost?

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Working for a structural firm, on a steel structural frame project, we have been asked to submit calculations for everything. Very specifically for footing and baseplate design. My boss got after me for saying “sure” when asked and has sent them an invoice for submission of the calcs. We have done this before, but not officially in a presentation binder etc... as i prepared it this time. And before it was just a discussion among civil/geo engineers and architects. What is your typical approach to this? My boss says he is hired for signed and sealed construction documents and not to submit calculations for others to have and use in the future. Now im kind of with him on the idea. 

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weird. we almost always have to submit calculations to get a permit. usually for engineered/bidder design elements like metal stairs or redbuilt joists, trusses etc, we will ask for stamped calcs and only look to verify that the design loads and considerations are in line with our design concept, but we get those as part of the submittal, and just "receive for record" and the arch coordinates dimensions etc. this way we can make sure we are supporting the right amount of reaction for it. I've never used a submitted to us set of calculations for anything, ever... the calcs would say the project information so they wouldn't be able to use them for something else, unless they were very unethical and got around all of that somehow. 

what is your scope of work in terms of design? stairs? entire building? I've never not had to submit calculations on a non single family residence. but i also live in a region where things are required to be stamped by an SE 

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The scope is an open walkway canopy. 12 ft high and varying from 10 to 14 ft wide. This all came about because i disagreed with the use of a 5/8” base plate for columns should have kept my mouth shut but a 5/8” base plate for an open structure taking 123MPH  wind speed seemed ridiculous to me. I designed the embedded HSS member into the concrete footing and trigerred the request for desgn calcs from fabricator. There is no provisions per say for embedded steel Columns in concrete in either  AISC or ACI, so i solved using a little of both and with some mechanics of materials engineering. 🙂 , but my boss says hes called it out that way many times and never submitted calcs. I didnt think it was a big deal but i guess theres some history amongst members in the design team for this project. Im just guessing. Luckily i didnt bring up that i thought footing were ridiculously oversized. 😓 Ofcourse we are desgning the Masonry buliding as well, this just came up on the canopy section. And this is all between engineers from fabricator, civil, and structural with the architect in the middle. No permit or municipality involved. 

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I work on mostly P3 projects on military installations and our AHJ always requires calculations prior to permit approval.  They actually check them and challenge the structural EOR on thier design before approving them.

Our consulting agreements with our subconsultants (structural included) state that we own all work product, including the structural calculations.

Edited by ruggercsc

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Typically here it depends on the scope of what we said we would provide.  Very rarely does the AHJ want a calc package.

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1 hour ago, vhab49_PE said:

Typically here it depends on the scope of what we said we would provide.  Very rarely does the AHJ want a calc package.

Tell that to our AHJ.  They review all the calulations and slow up the process. 

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On 6/12/2018 at 12:10 PM, Hemi79 said:

The scope is an open walkway canopy. 12 ft high and varying from 10 to 14 ft wide. This all came about because i disagreed with the use of a 5/8” base plate for columns should have kept my mouth shut but a 5/8” base plate for an open structure taking 123MPH  wind speed seemed ridiculous to me. I designed the embedded HSS member into the concrete footing and trigerred the request for desgn calcs from fabricator. There is no provisions per say for embedded steel Columns in concrete in either  AISC or ACI, so i solved using a little of both and with some mechanics of materials engineering. 🙂 , but my boss says hes called it out that way many times and never submitted calcs. I didnt think it was a big deal but i guess theres some history amongst members in the design team for this project. Im just guessing. Luckily i didnt bring up that i thought footing were ridiculously oversized. 😓 Ofcourse we are desgning the Masonry buliding as well, this just came up on the canopy section. And this is all between engineers from fabricator, civil, and structural with the architect in the middle. No permit or municipality involved. 

the fabricator wants design calcs? that's a different story. if the arch. or client wanted them, i totally get that, but the fabricator doesn't get to require that unless you're subbed in a contract under / with them. sorry for delayed response didn't realize people had responded yet!! :) 

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11 hours ago, tj_PE said:

the fabricator wants design calcs? that's a different story. if the arch. or client wanted them, i totally get that, but the fabricator doesn't get to require that unless you're subbed in a contract under / with them. sorry for delayed response didn't realize people had responded yet!! :) 

Yeah, we got the email from the architect and I was prompt to respond yes. Later my boss came to me and said “did you ask why?” , and I said not really. :-/, turned out the fabricator for canopy was requesting it because it contradicted their bid/estimate quantities. I guess they were gonna get paid less with my proposed changes and they didn’t like it. Anyways, we had a meeting and no calcs were submitted. We insisted on the invoice and they didn’t go for it. I guess I’m not getting a bonus.😢 

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