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ndekens

If you were to die today........

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14 hours ago, ndekens said:

Ahh yes, but the issue with your thinking is that you never read past verse 35. Jesus continues to explain why he is saying that he came to bring a sword.

Matt 10:37-38 "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me: And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

 

nah, the issue is i have a life beyond reading all story books and fairy tales in existence.

:reading:

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On 5/4/2018 at 2:45 PM, ndekens said:

What are you trying to say with quoting James? Are you saying we have to have works to be saved?

Works to be saved? No, but "faith without works is dead". 

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21 hours ago, Bot-Man said:

Works to be saved? No, but "faith without works is dead". 

Yes, faith without works is dead. But look at James 2:17 closely:

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. "

We can have faith in the Death, Burial and Resurrection; but if we are not doing anything with it, such as preaching the gospel or doing good works, then our faith is dead. We are doing nothing for God.

Yet our faith is still there.....alone.

People who believe in a works based Gospel saying you have to have works to be saved use this verse a lot, and they are wrong.

The Jesus they believe in is not the Jesus of the Bible. They are saying that his finished work on the cross wasn't good enough and that you had to also do good works to be save as well.

Where as the Jesus of the Bible says that all you have to do is Believe/Trust and call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, minus the good works.

Romans 10:10 " For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. "

No works needed.

So if you are trusting in having good works to be saved then Im afraid your not.

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On 5/4/2018 at 11:45 AM, ndekens said:

What are you trying to say with quoting James? Are you saying we have to have works to be saved?

Not at all.  That's not what James says either.  The whole point is works must follow faith or it's not true faith.

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Just now, Audi driver, P.E. said:

Not at all.  That's not what James says either.  The whole point is works must follow faith or it's not true faith.

Then your adding works to your faith.

Faith, is to believe and trust in the death burial and resurrection.

Otherwise the thief on the cross would have died and gone to hell even though Jesus said, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise", he was lying and this would violate Titus 1:2 which says "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;".

So no you do not have to have works at all.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

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Just now, ndekens said:

Then your adding works to your faith.

Faith, is to believe and trust in the death burial and resurrection.

Otherwise the thief on the cross would have died and gone to hell even though Jesus said, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise", he was lying and this would violate Titus 1:2 which says "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;".

So no you do not have to have works at all.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

You're misunderstanding me and James.  Not going to debate it further here.

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1 minute ago, Audi driver, P.E. said:

You're misunderstanding me and James.  Not going to debate it further here.

Then what are you saying?

 

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i think the point is that if you have faith you will naturally have works. 

Have you ever been in a relationship where your GF/BF said they loved you but didn't act like it? If someone loves you they don't need to say it, you know by their actions. The same is true of faith. Someone that has it doesn't need to say it. It shows through their works. 

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2 minutes ago, Bot-Man said:

i think the point is that if you have faith you will naturally have works. 

Have you ever been in a relationship where your GF/BF said they loved you but didn't act like it? If someone loves you they don't need to say it, you know by their actions. The same is true of faith. Someone that has it doesn't need to say it. It shows through their works. 

Yes, you can show your faith through your works. The issue is saying that the works will be there.

The works do not have to be there and they will only be there if you chose to do them. Has nothing to do with whether or not your saved. That is the issue.

Jesus himself said: John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Doing the works shows your love for God. Not your salvation.

You do not have to love God to be saved you just have to Trust/Believe in what he did for you: The death, burial and resurrection. You cannot throw works in there at all.

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What are you thoughts on not having money or lack money is the root of all evil? Is it written somewhere in the Bible? 

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45 minutes ago, Dean Agnostic said:

What are you thoughts on not having money or lack money is the root of all evil? Is it written somewhere in the Bible? 

The Bible doesn't say the lack of money is the root of all evil, but (1 Tim 6:10) "For the love of money is the root of all evil". It dosn't mean you can't be rich or have a lot of wealth. It means a constant pursuit to gain wealth and/or riches or trusting in your riches.

Abraham was wealthy and so was King David but no one has been more wealthy the King Solomon. All three were saved.

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4 hours ago, ndekens said:

You do not have to love God to be saved you just have to Trust/Believe in what he did for you: The death, burial and resurrection. You cannot throw works in there at all.

This doesn't make any sense. Doesn't it say somewhere that God is love?

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12 minutes ago, Jmcc06 said:

This doesn't make any sense. Doesn't it say somewhere that God is love?


Yes, the Bible does say that God is Love:

(1 John 4:8-10) "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

What these verses are saying is that the most loving thing you can do is give someone the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and show them how to be saved. Its not saying you have to love God to be saved.

The reason why God is love has to do with the fact that he paid our penalty of dying and going to hell for all eternity by his Death, Burial and Resurrection. He is our salvation and all we have to do to receive it is to trust it and call upon the name of the Lord (Jesus) to save us. After that you are saved for eternity and nothing you can do will take that away from you.

 

Edited by ndekens

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20 minutes ago, Ramnares P.E. said:

aM7J0393_700w_0.jpg

Though funny not exactly accurate. 😉

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1 hour ago, ndekens said:

After that you are saved for eternity and nothing you can do will take that away from you.

 

By saying this, I presume you believe "once saved, always saved." That is not how Christianity works. 

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Faith without works

Is like a song you can't sing

It's about as useless as a

screen door on a submarine

mm-mmm

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15 hours ago, Jmcc06 said:

By saying this, I presume you believe "once saved, always saved." That is not how Christianity works. 

Exactly! that's not how Christianity works!

But that is how salvation works.

Salvation is ETERNAL: Eternal = perpetual; ceaseless; endless

(Titus 1:2) "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"

(1 John 5:11) "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternallife, and this life is in his Son.

(1 John 5:13) "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternallife, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

(Matthew 25:46) "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternallife, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. "

(John 3:15) "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternallife."

(1John 2:25) "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternallife."

Salvation is EVERLASTING: Everlasting = lasting forever; eternal

(Daniel 12:2) "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlastinglife, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

(John 5:24) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlastinglife, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. "

(John 3:36) " He that believeth on the Son hath everlastinglife: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. "

(Matthew 25:46) " And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. "

(John 6:40) " And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlastinglife: and I will raise him up at the last day. "

(Luke 18:30) " Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come lifeeverlasting. "

(Romans 6:22) " But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlastinglife. "

(John 3:16) " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlastinglife. "

We are SAVED not Safe: Saved = to keep safe, intact, or unhurt; safeguard; preserve

(Mark 13:3) " And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

(Luke 7:50) " And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. "

(Luke 8:12) " Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. "

(Luke 13:23) " Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,"

(Luke 18:42) " And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee. "

(John 3:17) " For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. "

(John 5:34) " But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. "

(John 10:9) " I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. "

(Acts 2:21) " And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. "

(Acts 2:47) " Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. "

(Acts 4:12) " Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. "

(Acts 11:14) " Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. "

The point is the list goes on and on. There are thousands of scriptures showing once saved always saved. To deny these scriptures and go with one or two verses out of context to disprove it is wrong and shows a lack of salvation on your part.

 

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Perseverance of the saints is a fundamental part of Calvanism. What are your thoughts on predestination (calvanism vs arminianism)? 

21 hours ago, ndekens said:

He is our salvation and all we have to do to receive it is to trust it and call upon the name of the Lord (Jesus) to save us. After that you are saved for eternity and nothing you can do will take that away from you.

 

If you're calvanist, then saying "all you have to do is trust it and call upon the name of the Lord. After that you are saved for eternity..." is only partly true... right? God has already written an unchangeable plan. God chooses who goes to heaven. It is not left to man to decide who goes to heaven. It's a really hard, uncomfortable truth.  But it is supported by scripture in the OT and NT and also lines up with Gods character.

I think calvinism and arminianism is just a difference in how you interpret the scripture. 

 

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Romans 9:13-18
Ephesians 1:4-5

What do these say about god? About man? About salvation?
 

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9 minutes ago, Jmcc06 said:

 

Romans 9:13-18
Ephesians 1:4-5

What do these say about god? About man? About salvation?
 

Since you believe in Predestination and your an unsaved Calvanist answer me this: Is God a respecter of persons?

If God chooses who goes to heaven over who gets saved then wouldn't he respect some more then others?

The problem with a Calvinistic view of predestination is you are putting a salvation spin on it when God is simply saying that he inhabits eternity (lives outside of time) and can see the beginning from the end.

You deny, the need for a savior (The Lord Jesus Christ) because why would Jesus have to come and die for our sins when in the Calvinist reality he is just going to pick who gets saved or not.

You negate the need for the Great Commission to go out and preach the Gospel. There is no reason to get anyone saved in your eyes. Why does a Calvinist have to lift a finger then?

Titus 1:2 states that God is not a liar and Romans 10:13 clearly says "Whosoever" calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If a person that God will not save calls upon the name of the Lord and he dosn't save him then you just made God a liar and you are not believeing in the God of the Bible.

Predestination is invalid.

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I never said I was Calvanist or believed in predestination. But you make it sound like getting saved (born again) is as easy as seeing an infomercial on TV and then calling a 1-800 number. You have to believe in your heart, not just say it. And it all starts with Grace, given by God. Ephesians 2: 8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

You're not very good at discussing this topic you started. You called me an unsaved Calvanist when I asked you what your thoughts were on a subject and then also asked you a few questions lol. You are a sinner just like me. 

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21 hours ago, Jmcc06 said:

By saying this, I presume you believe "once saved, always saved." That is not how Christianity works. 

 

1 hour ago, Jmcc06 said:

If you're calvanist, then saying "all you have to do is trust it and call upon the name of the Lord. After that you are saved for eternity..." is only partly true... right? God has already written an unchangeable plan. God chooses who goes to heaven.

Um, back pedal much? You quoted calvanisim and told me God chooses who goes to heaven. Um....thats Calvanisim. And, yes you are unsaved if you are trusting in it.

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I told you what Calvanism was because you believe one of the things that Calvanists believe... which is Perseverance of the Saints (once saved, always saved)

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