Garbage Fire

That was a brutal test. I thought I was prepared, I took the 2016 NCEES practice exam the week before and got three wrong answers. On the actual test I had to straight up guess on like 10 questions. 

I literally flipped the test booklet over three or four times to make sure I had been given the right test. "Surely this isn't a TFS question, I must have the wrong book! .... no? Uh-oh."

Anyone else feel blindsided by the content of the test? General feelings only, no specifics!

Mods - if this is too close to the line please delete.  

Very sorry to hear.   But straight up guess for 10 questions isn't too bad. How did you feel on the others? 

I'm really curious to hear how different the exam was for the re-takers due to the new format.   

I have the same feelings about the actual exam. I took HVAC exam. Especially, Morning Session was very tricky and I saw unexpected questions based on their difficulties when you compare with NCEES sample exam.

starquest said:

Very sorry to hear.   But straight up guess for 10 questions isn't too bad. How did you feel on the others? 

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Mixed bag. Some I know I got right, some I'm not so sure about. I know there were a few questions that I may have been more comfortable with if i could have had time to work them another way, or double check my results. As it was, I worked to the buzzer on the morning session and only had half an hour at the end of the afternoon session. I was too drained to do any actual focused review of my work at the end of the afternoon session though, so I spent that time staring off into the distance with a forlorn look on my face. 

I took the MDM.

The morning I feel pretty good about.  There were only a couple of problems that I had to make educated guesses on.  I am sure I made some silly mistakes but overall I went into lunch feeling rather confident.

The afternoon portion was much, much more challenging.  Many of the problems were extremely complex.  I am sure in some cases you didn't need all of the info to solve the problem (which NCEES seems to like to do) but 6 hours into a test it can be hard to sort through the fluff and I found myself taking wrong paths to answer problems that ended up wasting valuable time.  I probably answered 20 to 25 questions with decent confidence, 10 questions with educated guesses, and the last 5 I just picked C.

That being said, this is my second time taking the exam.  The last time I took it I felt much less confident and scored a 67% which I assume means that I was 2 or 3 questions short of passing.  The general feel that I am getting from most is that this was a pretty tough version of the test so I assume/hope that there should be another healthy curve to achieve that magical 70%.

Engineerdude123, I felt the exact opposite about the Machine Design & Materials (MDM) exam.

The morning I felt was much tougher and was very general/extremely broad. Although neither the morning/afternoon had any questions where I felt I needed to straight up guess, I did have a fair amount of educated guesses in the morning. I felt like there were some really out there/nebulous questions in that you either know this or you don't. I think in the morning there was around 28-30 that I answered with decent confidence, around 5-6 that involved some educated guessing, and another 5-6 I am pretty sure I got wrong/fell for the traps.  

The afternoon went very smoothly for me. I don't think there was a single question I said, let me come back to this one later. There were only 2 that I felt were kind of tricky in the wording and pretty sure I got wrong. There are another 2 or 3 that were educated guesses/afraid I might have fell for the traps after thinking about it later.

I felt similar to apford about the morning exam. A little blindsided by the content of the test. With hindsight I kind of wish I had signed up for PPIs exam cafe to answer some non-quantitative questions. I read the PPI exam cafe isn't that great, but I think it would have helped me solidify some things.

I hope we all passed! It was a much more stressful/brutal exam than I was anticipating. I hope I am just overthinking it.

MEC_SBU said:

Engineerdude123, I felt the exact opposite about the Machine Design & Materials (MDM) exam.

The morning I felt was much tougher and was very general/extremely broad. Although neither the exam/afternoon had any questions where I felt I needed to straight up guess, I did have a fair amount of educated guesses in the morning. I felt like there were some really out there/nebulous questions in that you either know this or you don't. I think in the morning there was around 28-30 that I answered with decent confidence, around 5-6 that involved some educated guessing, and another 5-6 I am pretty sure I got wrong/fell for the traps.  

The afternoon went very smoothly for me. I don't think there was a single question I said, let me come back to this one later. There were only 2 that I felt were kind of tricky in the wording and pretty sure I got wrong. There are another 2 or 3 that were educated guesses/afraid I might have fell for the traps after thinking about it later.

I felt similar to apford about the morning exam. A little blindsided by the content of the test. With hindsight I kind of wish I had signed up for PPIs exam cafe to answer some non-quantitative questions. I read the PPI exam cafe isn't that great, but I think it would have helped me solidify some things.

I hope we all passed! It was a much more stressful/brutal exam than I was anticipating. I hope I am just overthinking it.




 

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Hmmm that is quite interesting!  I am fairly sure that fatigue played a significant role in some of my struggles in the afternoon and I am sure if I took it again with a fresh mind there would be some problems I would not struggle as much with.

Are there different versions of the exam given out?  FWIW I have talked to 4 other people who took the MDM and you are the first who has said that the afternoon was easier.

I do not think there are different versions of the exam given out, although I don't know for sure. I have not talked to anybody about the MDM exam as I didn't know anyone at the exam site or anybody personally taking it this session. This forum has been my only real support for the exam.

In general I am not a morning person, so I am wondering if that had something to do with it?

J_MEC said:

I do not think there are different versions of the exam given out, although I don't know for sure. I have not talked to anybody about the MDM exam as I didn't know anyone at the exam site or anybody personally taking it this session. This forum has been my only real support for the exam.

In general I am not a morning person, so I am wondering if that had something to do with it?




 

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It could be.  The morning definitely had some broader questions but I didn't have any problem finding solutions to them with the resources I brought.  But yeah without having the necessary books you would be SOL.

The afternoon had a lot more quantitative problems IMO which (at least for me) required some harder thinking and my brain was already reaching fried mode so that didn't go together well.  Looking back now with a clear mind, I know the approach to use to solve most but I just couldn't connect the dots at the time.

I think it will really boil down to what the cut score is.  Last October it was in the high 40s.

I feel that when I took the exam, I had no basis for how I did and I wish I had this forum and your discussions at the time.  I want to put your discussions into a survey, such that we could share the data with the next set of test takers.  Please take the survey, when you have some time, so we can help out the next set of test takers.  The survey is only 7 questions and I am open to suggestions on how to better improve the survey.  

Machine Design & Materials:  https://goo.gl/forms/yrfjMD3EznbL7QcG2

HVAC & Refrigeration:  https://goo.gl/forms/4zuYXveCzswI70d93

Thermal & Fluids:  https://goo.gl/forms/zaEMML2Dy0IN9p9Y2

Congratulations everyone on being done with the exam!  

I took the MDM portion and felt like the morning was a lot of conceptual/broad topics that weren't necessarily hard - but if you didn't have a resource saying the exact answer, there were always 2 that boiled down and either could have been the answer. Concerns me how many of them could really go either way (for me) in the morning.  

The afternoon was definitely more difficult for me, but I really welcomed being able to grind out some answers and work the problems. There was a stretch of about 5 problems towards the very end where the material seemed completely off the wall - to the point where I had never heard of what they were trying to reference. Those problems I couldn't even make an educated guess at...  

Anyone take the TFS?

I felt that the problems that were really emphasized in the practice exam weren't all that tested in the real exam which was a huge bummer. Definitely felt that the new breadth is deceptive as they threw in a number of other disciplines than pure TFS. Overall, not that confident especially if people have failed in the past with ~70% 

berk10, it seems like more people were confident in the morning portion as opposed to the afternoon portion of the exam.  I only have 3 responses right now, but hopefully we get more feedback.  

amats42,  according to the survey, it seems like the cooling/heating topic was a struggle for most people.  Most people felt like they only guessed on less than 15 problems on the afternoon portion.  It was a mixed response on the morning session.  I only have 3 responses right now, but hopefully we get more feedback.  

I have 19 responses on the HVAC exam.

Machine Design & Materials:  https://goo.gl/forms/yrfjMD3EznbL7QcG2

HVAC & Refrigeration:  https://goo.gl/forms/4zuYXveCzswI70d93

Thermal & Fluids:  https://goo.gl/forms/zaEMML2Dy0IN9p9Y2

engineerdude123, berk10, What references did you bring? All I brought was the MERM, Shigley's, FE Reference Handbook and Machinery's Handbook. I also had a binder and some practice problems books(NCEES practice exam, Six Minute Solutions, PPI MERM Companion and PPI practice exam) but I never opened them. My references didn't seem to cover everything that was asked for the morning, at least not completely and definitively. They did give me what I think I needed to make an educated guess, but not to where I feel 100% confident in the answer. 

Justin-hawaii, I think the survey for the MDM looks good. I think that it might be a cool idea to add a question whether or not you passed and have people fill it out after they get their results. It'd be interesting to me at least to see how many people felt very confident walking out of the exam and then failed.

J_MEC said:

engineerdude123, berk10, What references did you bring? All I brought was the MERM, Shigley's, FE Reference Handbook and Machinery's Handbook. I also had a binder and some practice problems books(NCEES practice exam, Six Minute Solutions, PPI MERM Companion and PPI practice exam) but I never opened them. My references didn't seem to cover everything that was asked for the morning, at least not completely and definitively. They did give me what I think I needed to make an educated guess, but not to where I feel 100% confident in the answer. 

Justin-hawaii, I think the survey for the MDM looks good. I think that it might be a cool idea to add a question whether or not you passed and have people fill it out after they get their results. It'd be interesting to me at least to see how many people felt very confident walking out of the exam and then failed.




 

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-Various binders of notes and problems that were made through Dr. Tom's Class which I signed up for. (Used these the most)

-MERM  (Used a few times)

-MERM Practice Problems (Didn't even open)

-6-minute solutions (Didn't even open)

-2 NCEES practice exams (Opened once)

-Kennedy's PE review book (Used a few times)

-Shigley's (Didn't even open)

-Roark's  (Didn't even open)

-Machinist Handbook (Used a few times)

-EMJ Blue Book  (Didn't even open)

-Engineering Unit Conversion Book  (Used a few times)

J_MEC, I will email everyone who took the survey to answer the pass/fail question after we get the results.  Thank you for the suggestion.  

Machine Design & Materials (4 responses so far):  https://goo.gl/forms/yrfjMD3EznbL7QcG2

HVAC & Refrigeration (22 responses so far):  https://goo.gl/forms/4zuYXveCzswI70d93

Thermal & Fluids (6 responses so far):  https://goo.gl/forms/zaEMML2Dy0IN9p9Y2

J_MEC said:

engineerdude123, berk10, What references did you bring? All I brought was the MERM, Shigley's, FE Reference Handbook and Machinery's Handbook. I also had a binder and some practice problems books(NCEES practice exam, Six Minute Solutions, PPI MERM Companion and PPI practice exam) but I never opened them. My references didn't seem to cover everything that was asked for the morning, at least not completely and definitively. They did give me what I think I needed to make an educated guess, but not to where I feel 100% confident in the answer. 

Justin-hawaii, I think the survey for the MDM looks good. I think that it might be a cool idea to add a question whether or not you passed and have people fill it out after they get their results. It'd be interesting to me at least to see how many people felt very confident walking out of the exam and then failed.




 

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J_MEC, I had the exact references with the exception of the FE Handbook and having the PE version. I also had a unit conversion book that I found pretty helpful and I did reference the NCEES practice exam and 6MS for a couple of problems. 

Took the MD&M, I felt like there were too many questions that weren't covered in my study material.  What I mean is, there were questions on obscure areas that were referenced in the material as maybe a paragraph or two, but not in major areas or not in much depth.  I was surprised how little there was in questions that required some "working out" at the same time I was surprised how many questions were looking for a word answer, not a mathematical answer.

Here's what I brought and their usage:

-Binder of notes and problems that I made from 6MS, 2001, 2011, and 2016 NCEES Practice Exams, as well as what I put together from the MERM. (Used these the most)

-MERM  (Used a lot)

-MERM Practice Problems (Once or twice)

-6 Minute Solutions (2-3 times)

-3 different NCEES practice exams (2-3 times)

-Machinist Handbook (2-3 times)

-Engineering Unit Conversion Book  (Used a lot)

I did not bring:

Shigley's (2 different Editions)

2008 NCEES Practice Exam (essentailly the same as the 2011, but the book is worn out)

Three other generic PE study books, they're so bad I won't even give them credit here.  But to be fair, they're old and there's a reason I got each one for less $15.

Pro tip:  Get you all your hand notes and other study material, that you would have put in a binder, made into a Spiral Bound binder.  A regular binder takes up too much real estate not only when you're studying, but when you take the test too.  The down side is that it's not easy to add to it once it's bound, so just get it done a few days before the exam.  You can get it done for cheap at Fedex/Kinkos.

justin-hawaii said:

I feel that when I took the exam, I had no basis for how I did and I wish I had this forum and your discussions at the time.  I want to put your discussions into a survey, such that we could share the data with the next set of test takers.  Please take the survey, when you have some time, so we can help out the next set of test takers.  The survey is only 7 questions and I am open to suggestions on how to better improve the survey.  

Machine Design & Materials:  https://goo.gl/forms/yrfjMD3EznbL7QcG2

HVAC & Refrigeration:  https://goo.gl/forms/4zuYXveCzswI70d93

Thermal & Fluids:  https://goo.gl/forms/zaEMML2Dy0IN9p9Y2

Congratulations everyone on being done with the exam!  

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I have already participated in the survey and I believe that engineering pro guide for the PE thermal and fluid exam is the most valuable referance for the PE exam since it gives you a clear path for the studying and narrow the topics that you need for the studying 

ehat references did the HVAC people bring?