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Cut Scores

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@@DummyCivilEng, you just need to accept the test how it is. Who cares if they establish a cut score? You should study for the exam as if you're trying to answer them all correctly... then it won't matter. In the end you did the best you could.

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1 hour ago, Jmcc06 said:

@@DummyCivilEng, you just need to accept the test how it is. Who cares if they establish a cut score? You should study for the exam as if you're trying to answer them all correctly... then it won't matter. In the end you did the best you could.

I accept that it is not a real test.

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Real or not, I know who passes. #jedimasterofuselessknowledge

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13 hours ago, DummyCivilEng said:

What I mean by a cut score is that there's no absolute correct solution set and that the passing score has to be determined based on how others perform. For that reason, it is not a real test.

I sort of agree with you in that I personally dislike how the NCEES runs things (not that it matters) but the exam isn't based on a curve.  They subjectively determine a passing score that NCEES subject matter experts view as "acceptable competency".  If you beat that score, you pass, if not, you fail.  

 

Same concept as your drivers test.  Someone determined that 70% (or whatever it is) is an acceptable level of competency for a drivers test... If you beat the score, you pass, if not, you fail.  Same as the NCEES exam.  This is true of any pass/fail test that isn't graded on a curve.

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14 hours ago, DummyCivilEng said:

What I mean by a cut score is that there's no absolute correct solution set and that the passing score has to be determined based on how others perform. For that reason, it is not a real test.

Firstly, there is an absolute correct solution set.  Each question, unless it is a faulty one, has one correct answer.  By definition, the test has one solution set.

Secondly, if NCEES did not use a cut score system, folks would still complain that the exam is administered unfairly.  Since the questions are not, and should not, be the same every cycle, the difficulty of the test would vary for each cycle, meaning a defined passing score would inherently be unfair.  The current system works because the test, again, is to define 'minimally competent' engineers, which is achieved by using the cut score process as it currently is.  

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The passing score changes each test taking cycle based upon numerous factors. One of them being the scoring rate for each question. If too many people have failed an individual question, it is thrown out. If too many people are getting overall lower scores than usual, the passing score has to be reduced because overall the test was too "difficult". There is a curve and it is set by the cut score. We will have the lowest cut score in a generation. I am guessing 49.

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On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 9:23 AM, BarneyOnAcid said:

The passing score changes each test taking cycle based upon numerous factors. One of them being the scoring rate for each question. If too many people have failed an individual question, it is thrown out. If too many people are getting overall lower scores than usual, the passing score has to be reduced because overall the test was too "difficult". There is a curve and it is set by the cut score. We will have the lowest cut score in a generation. I am guessing 49.

Why do you think the cut score is going to be that low?  Last exam cycle it was around a 53/80 for structural, and it seems like it has been around that for many years.  Was this test a lot more difficult than previous tests? 

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I thought it was more difficult but I was more prepared therefore I think I will still fail. I got 52 questions right in April. Structural.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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No way would it be 49.

Anybody want to take a guess what Water Resources will be? I say 55.

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8 minutes ago, Charles Webb said:

No way would it be 49.

Anybody want to take a guess what Water Resources will be? I say 55.

My guesstimate is something in between 50-55.....

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1 hour ago, JUST DO IT! said:

My guesstimate is something in between 50-55.....

any reason for this? Was it that much harder than the others?

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3 hours ago, Charles Webb said:

No way would it be 49.

Anybody want to take a guess what Water Resources will be? I say 55.

Seems low.

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1 hour ago, glockjacket said:

Unnecessary for at least another 45-50 days. Calm down grasshopper 

Apparently I forgot to use the sarcasm font....................

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4 hours ago, KS Mech said:

Apparently I forgot to use the sarcasm font....................

That is unlocked for supporting members only.

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9 hours ago, Audi driver, P.E. said:

Seems low.

It varies for each field of exam. It depends on difficulty of each of them. In civil Geo maybe in average more difficult than Env. So the cut score for Geo will be lower than Env. It should be sth like this. 

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12 hours ago, Brono said:

It varies for each field of exam. It depends on difficulty of each of them. In civil Geo maybe in average more difficult than Env. So the cut score for Geo will be lower than Env. It should be sth like this. 

Of course.

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Dude, they are all going to be lower. All of the recent grads came in to take the exam unprepared. They're employers paid for them to take it and they really weren't motivated because they still have 3 years to try, 6 to 7 more attempts before they have experience to be licensed. Look man this score is going to be lower than ever. What is the lowest recorded score by the way?

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I really don't buy that argument.  Maybe test scores will be lower, maybe they'll be higher.  The scores have historically fluctuated from year to year and within each discipline.  I'm not sure anyone could really pick apart whether they are higher or lower as a specific result of more of one group taking an exam (IE younger test takers). 

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About 5 more more and results will be trouping in. The wait is real...Looking forwards to the results

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I bolded the relevant part of my post for you.  I am glad you passed one of the Civil exams with less than the prescribed level of experience.  I think some other disciplines may have a harder time with less than 4 years.  I think someone who is well beyond minimally competent can probably pass at any point after college.  Someone right near the cutoff for competency would likely benefit from the work experience portion of the requirements, as practical knowledge is tested.  Not everyone's job will be directly relevant, but that doesn't mean that work experience wouldn't help lots of other test takers.

On 11/3/2016 at 11:41 AM, CU07 said:

There is no curve.  The cut score is designed to pass people who are minimally competent and fail those who are not.  It doesn't matter how many people take the test.  If 1,500 people take it and only 400 meet the standard for minimally competent, then only 400 will pass.

NCEES changed their Model Law to decouple experience from examination in 2013, meaning they support examinees taking it when they feel ready, but licensure still requires the same experience.  The exam has not, and will not, change because of this.  It is entirely possible that inexperienced examinees will have a hard time passing without practical experience - and I think this may be true for some exams more so than for others.

 

On 11/4/2016 at 9:40 PM, Phatso86 said:

that's not accurate. when i took the test for civil, i had 3 years of experience (minus two working for a power plant, so virtually 1 year) and passed easily

that time everything you needed to know was in the PPI book. as long as you studied from it, you passed. Most of everything i was tested on i never saw again in my professional life. But at least it was in the study material. Unlike the power exam i took.

 

 

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On 11/9/2016 at 11:09 AM, Charles Webb said:

any reason for this? Was it that much harder than the others?

That was just my guesstimate based on what i heard from 3 WRE repeat test takers. They all said the test this year is more harder than the previous year. As per them, the estimated cut off score for the October 2015 WRE was around 56. So, assuming all that is true, I guessed the cut off would be less than 56.

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5 minutes ago, JUST DO IT! said:

That was just my guesstimate based on what i heard from 3 WRE repeat test takers. They all said the test this year is more harder than the previous year. As per them, the estimated cut off score for the October 2015 WRE was around 56. So, assuming all that is true, I guessed the cut off would be less than 56.

I took the Transportation exam in April 2016 with very little prep and did not pass. However, I did not find it to be very difficult, had I known my references better I would've been able to pass the exam I believe. Once I found out I failed the exam I decided to take a review course and get serious about studying. I put in about 410 hours of studying for this past October exam and felt pretty good walking out of the exam. I do believe the content of this exam was more difficult but since I put in the time studying I was able to get through most of it without too much difficulty, but NCEES will be the judge of that I guess! :) good luck to everyone waiting for their results.

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