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glockjacket P.E.

Cut Scores

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16 hours ago, smahurin said:

NCEES determines this, not individual member boards.

  I think they have subject matter experts take the exam and determine its difficulty, then subjectively assign a cut score.  Otherwise pass rates would always be the same, when then aren't. 

Everything I've read from official sources backs this up. They have actual PEs in the area take the test and/or proof the questions beforehand.  And based upon the results of those exams/studies there is a discussion on whether a given question could be answered by an average PE. The number of those questions on the test is essentially the cut score. 

I also know that NCEES works with professional groups to design and proof the test. For instance the ANS PE committee works the nuclear PPE. 

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12 hours ago, SE_FL said:

In this case, I will only submit my vote if I can see the signature on the answer sheet. I have seen some embarrassing signatures on some plans and it makes me wonder about their pride in their work. I would not want anyone with a straight line or single loop as a signature becoming a PE for a handful of reasons.

what if there's like...4-ish loops?

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3 minutes ago, thejulie said:

what if there's like...4-ish loops?

It it can be easily replicated by someone else - No.

If it does not show a hint of your personality/character - No.

http://atozhandwriting.com/signature-analysis/

Please note, these are not requirements, just suggestions. I am sure there are some brilliant engineers that have crappy signatures and it doesn't make their work less valuable. As a structural engineer I sign documents for hundreds of new clients each year. Some will not appreciate a "good" professional signature and some may. But I would prefer for my signature to be recognizable and show the reader that I am confident in my engineering opinion (or approval of document) and I am not afraid of someone knowing that I signed something.

I started looking at my signature after a co-worker mentioned it during the study period for the PE. He said that people will forever be looking at my signature and judging the quality of the documents based on signature analysis. Once I started the PE-ness portion of my career, I did not want to change my signature. So I practiced a few modifications and used a new technique until I settled on the one I currently have.

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^that's too much like work

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11 minutes ago, snickerd3 said:

^that's too much like work

Ha, seriously, I've looked at hundreds of stamped drawings and haven't once thought about the kind of person stamping the drawings.  I usually just look to see what that state's seal is like.

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Digital signing anyone?

Oh wait, is this what we are really talking about?

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1 hour ago, SE_FL said:

It it can be easily replicated by someone else - No.

If it does not show a hint of your personality/character - No.

http://atozhandwriting.com/signature-analysis/

Please note, these are not requirements, just suggestions. I am sure there are some brilliant engineers that have crappy signatures and it doesn't make their work less valuable. As a structural engineer I sign documents for hundreds of new clients each year. Some will not appreciate a "good" professional signature and some may. But I would prefer for my signature to be recognizable and show the reader that I am confident in my engineering opinion (or approval of document) and I am not afraid of someone knowing that I signed something.

I started looking at my signature after a co-worker mentioned it during the study period for the PE. He said that people will forever be looking at my signature and judging the quality of the documents based on signature analysis. Once I started the PE-ness portion of my career, I did not want to change my signature. So I practiced a few modifications and used a new technique until I settled on the one I currently have.

What the actual what?

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Does anyone think that the cut score might be a little lower this time around?  The original poster said 59, but that seems awfully high, and I don't think I will hit that mark.  I took structural depth and I thought it was challenging, though I also didn't manage my time well.  From the April exam, the highest failing score reported was a 52/80.  People seemed to think that the test was easier than this one that was just given.  Unfortunately, I am hovering at around this mark.  Hopefully it is just enough to get by.

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14 minutes ago, cperr017 said:

Does anyone think that the cut score might be a little lower this time around?  The original poster said 59, but that seems awfully high, and I don't think I will hit that mark.  I took structural depth and I thought it was challenging, though I also didn't manage my time well.  From the April exam, the highest failing score reported was a 52/80.  People seemed to think that the test was easier than this one that was just given.  Unfortunately, I am hovering at around this mark.  Hopefully it is just enough to get by.

Time will tell

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On 11/1/2016 at 4:10 PM, FlyingScot said:

I took the exam in Houston and was surprised by the number of fresh-out-of-schoolers there were.  

I actually made use of the new rule even though I have enough years under my belt.  My decision to take the test was a bit of a "why the hell not" moment that occurred in between the TBPE application cutoff and the NCEES exam sign-up cutoff dates.

Same here on both points.  They said over 1500 people were taking the test this time.  Compare that against the 621, or so, who took the test in April.  Would assume/hope that people 1-3 years out of school would do worse than those with more experience, improving the curve. 

I'm at ~6.5 years in industry, but figured I'd worry about writing the SER and getting my references to submit the paperwork after the test.  

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Does anyone think that the cut score might be a little lower this time around?  The original poster said 59, but that seems awfully high, and I don't think I will hit that mark.  I took structural depth and I thought it was challenging, though I also didn't manage my time well.  From the April exam, the highest failing score reported was a 52/80.  People seemed to think that the test was easier than this one that was just given.  Unfortunately, I am hovering at around this mark.  Hopefully it is just enough to get by.

I too took structural depth and feel like the highest failing score I heard of was 55. If 53 was passing then I am livid because I got 52 lolllllll here's hoping we all got 85/80 this round. You get a pass! You get a pass! Everybody gets a pass!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, thejulie said:

I too took structural depth and feel like the highest failing score I heard of was 55. If 53 was passing then I am livid because I got 52 lolllllll emoji24.pngemoji24.pngemoji24.pngemoji90.png here's hoping we all got 85/80 this round. You get a pass! You get a pass! Everybody gets a pass!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

What is a Tapatalk! (distraction)

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2 hours ago, haali said:

What is a Tapatalk! (distraction)

:facepalm:

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15 hours ago, nukem2k5 said:

Same here on both points.  They said over 1500 people were taking the test this time.  Compare that against the 621, or so, who took the test in April.  Would assume/hope that people 1-3 years out of school would do worse than those with more experience, improving the curve.

There is no curve.  The cut score is designed to pass people who are minimally competent and fail those who are not.  It doesn't matter how many people take the test.  If 1,500 people take it and only 400 meet the standard for minimally competent, then only 400 will pass.

NCEES changed their Model Law to decouple experience from examination in 2013, meaning they support examinees taking it when they feel ready, but licensure still requires the same experience.  The exam has not, and will not, change because of this.  It is entirely possible that inexperienced examinees will have a hard time passing without practical experience - and I think this may be true for some exams more so than for others.

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when you get an email from NCEES (which i pronounce neesees) and about die, until you realize it's just the survey email. :oops: ps cut score is 10.

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12 minutes ago, thejulie said:

when you get an email from NCEES (which i pronounce neesees) and about die, until you realize it's just the survey email. :oops: ps cut score is 10.

wouldn't en seas be a lot closer?

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Just now, Audi driver, P.E. said:

wouldn't en seas be a lot closer?

maybe but neesees is most funnest to say 

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3 hours ago, thejulie said:

maybe but neesees is most funnest to say 

On that note, is your screen name pronounced THEE Julie or Thuh Julie? (writing phonetically is patently not my strong suit).

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13 minutes ago, Audi driver, P.E. said:

On that note, is your screen name pronounced THEE Julie or Thuh Julie? (writing phonetically is patently not my strong suit).

That's a good question. I guess it would be just thuh julie. Dictionary.com says before a consonant it's just thuh. I've never put too much thought into it...but I do remember getting sassy about Ohio State being THE ohio state. So yeah, just thuh. 

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13 minutes ago, Audi driver, P.E. said: On that note, is your screen name pronounced THEE Julie or Thuh Julie? (writing phonetically is patently not my strong suit).

That's a good question. I guess it would be just thuh julie. Dictionary.com says before a consonant it's just thuh. I've never put too much thought into it...but I do remember getting sassy about Ohio State being THE ohio state. So yeah, just thuh. 

There's a reason for that being the way it is at THE OSU.

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13 hours ago, Ken PE 3.0 said:

There's a reason for that being the way it is at THE OSU.

Oh there's a good reason all right....

groundhog-day-punch-o.gif

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1600 Houston Test Takers in Oct. - 621 in April = 979 people with less than the required experience to be a P.E. It is a larger number of newb testers than experienced. That curve is totally being thrown off. Now that is just one location, imagine the entire state of Texas following this trend, which it is. Passing score will be lower, the question is by how much. Are we looking at a record breaking low passing score, like 49/80? What's your guess given the data.

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11 minutes ago, BarneyOnAcid said:

1600 Houston Test Takers in Oct. - 621 in April = 979 people with less than the required experience to be a P.E. It is a larger number of newb testers than experienced. That curve is totally being thrown off. Now that is just one location, imagine the entire state of Texas following this trend, which it is. Passing score will be lower, the question is by how much. Are we looking at a record breaking low passing score, like 49/80? What's your guess given the data.

There is no curve.  As discussed many times, the passing rate is not determined on a curve.  It is determined by the difficulty of the exam, not the intelligence of those taking it.

 

And by the way,  recent grad usually perform at the same or slightly better  than experienced test takers.  I will look up my source on that one.

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Does anyone know what the cut score range was for the October 2015 exam?  I know that each test is different, but you would think that the cut scores would be similar to that exam, if in fact the October exams are generally harder.

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39 minutes ago, cperr017 said:

Does anyone know what the cut score range was for the October 2015 exam?  I know that each test is different, but you would think that the cut scores would be similar to that exam, if in fact the October exams are generally harder.

My guess is mid 50s for Civil Structural.

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