First Engineering job out of college. Need some advice please.

HI,

So I am going through some issues at work. I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice on what to do. Here's my story (i'll try my best to keep it short).

So i graduated with a B.S. in Civil Engineering in May 2015. I got a job offer before my senior year ended in Site Development Engineering (I didn't have any experience in this field, I interned with a Village in college so I had some construction experience). so I was hired as a designer. So when I was hired and the guy that interviewed me (l'll refer to him as Bob) seemed to like me and he was my type of mentor I was thinking to have to grow in my career as a Civil Engineer. His explanations were clear, he drew out a lot of the concepts which helped me a ton in understanding concepts, and he was friendly towards me. So after about 4 months he resigned and took a job elsewhere.

So I was put with a new another boss in our company (I'll refer to him as Ron). So slowly he started to give me more workload. He had high expectations for me and still does. It seems to me he expects everything to be perfect and I can draw up plans like an expert. I don't have much experience and I am still learning things. There are a lot of things I don't understand by the way he explains them (I'm a visual learner). Whenever I go to him with work I have completed he always says things like "I explained this earlier", "I don't like to repeat myself", "you should know how to do this", etc etc. I spend like 1 hour in his office and he goes through a million things and expects me to have them down immediately. But there is only so much I can remember. I can't grasp everything he says. I tell him I am trying my best and trying to write down everything your saying and remembering everything you say but it's hard for me Basically his response is try harder because I don't have time to go back and forth. I understand he can't repeat everything and it does waste time. But I can't grasp and understand everything in one shot either

I was and still am trying to work the way he works and understand concepts. But recently I just can't take it anymore because this is an everyday thing. I am afraid to go to his office because everytime I go in he always has to critique about my work ethic etc. He keeps says I make excuses. I am seriously trying my best, I am one of the first people in the office in the morning and one of the last ones out. I am giving all that I can give. I am strongly thinking after what I have gone through today to go talk to the President of the company to move me to another group and another supervisor. I am so tensed and stressed by his remarks. I always just stay quiet or say that I need some time and I am learning but he always just says I don't have that much time etc etc.

Can someone please help me on what to do? I can't sleep at night, I am grumpy all day, not happy at all with my life. I keep trying harder and harder, staying later and later (working 50+ hour weeks) and I feel I am a failure or I am in the wrong place. I don't like even going to work anymore because I know I am going to hear something from my boss about me.

I appreciate anyones advice and understanding about my issue. This is my first job out of college

My first suggestion would be to ask other junior engineers for reviews and advice on projects. Managers typically don't like to be bothered with a ton of small questions that could be answered by a coworker (not saying that is your case). Also, instead of multiple visits, compile a list of questions, set up a meeting and go over them all at once. Find other projects and review them compared to what your doing. It sounds like you went from a manager to that is very open to one that takes the "Trial by fire" approach. I'd say with only being there for 4 months, it's a little early to make any big changes. Your current manager may be swamped and stressed just like yourself. Just my two cents. It's hard to judge without being in your situation. I started out with a private firm in a trial by fire environment. It can suck at times, and to be honest, 50 hrs a week is nothing in a typical private firm, especially if things are balls to the wall. I get that you learn visually, but you have to remember, that isn't necessarily how people teach. There is also the possibility that your manager is just an a-hole and tough to work for, but you probably need to put more time in to really find that out.

That's a sad situation. I'm sorry to hear anyone go through something like that. I've had friends, even outside of engineering, who had such experiences. I've never encountered it at that level though.

I use to try to be tough in situations like this. Now that I'm in my 30s, I really don't appreciate being unhappy. It leads to really unacceptable thoughts in my head and I don't think anything is worth that. Sometimes, supervisors like this push you to a point where you just become excellent and your standards of yourself and others rise. Later in your career, you could be thankful. But, if you're not in the right mental state to receive that pounding until you're shaped up to their liking, it can have devastating consequences. I had all sorts of medical problems at some point resulting from stress. At first I thought it was in my head then I started making note of the pattern. 

@DuckFlats makes a good point about consulting others. It may not always be practical for them to check your work but getting some kind of input should reduce the errors you make. It helps also to talk to other people who work with him to get their thoughts on how he treats them, how he likes things etc... Mostly, the two of you have different working styles. It's very common but can be a learning opportunity. 

This might sound scary and you might be worried that it will cost you your job but I would honestly set a meeting and talk to the guy. Not a meeting to go over work. Just walk in with no other distraction. But go in with a plan. I've had to do that before. As your supervisor, and if he's not an a-hole, he should understand and try to foster you rather than put you down. First, I'd check with HR without naming names. You could go in and say you're having some work related issues due to difference in work and communication styles and that you're about to talk to that person to explain your position and see if there can be a compromise. They might have some tips, they might make you fill out documentation etc... I'm only suggesting that because you don't want things to go sideways in that conversation and not have mentioned it to someone. If the guy is in fact an a-hole and has the means to get rid of you, you don't want to not have documented it or not have a witness or never mentioned it to someone. You should ask HR what should you do if the guy begins to retaliate or pushing you away afterwards because he didn't like that you talked to him. That could be not giving you work when he's the only source of work and you have to stay billable, or telling you a task is ok but when the final product goes out, there's nothing of you left in. He basically redid it himself or gave it to someone else to redo. What you could do also is go in with another supervisor even if they're not part of your department.

Now... once you check, if you can check.... Come up with a plan on how a past project could have worked out easier on the two of you. You might be one of those people who has to do work in stages and check in once or twice a week depending on your deadline. I'm the kind of person who needs to start something before I can have some good and founded questions. My approach is to usually get a dry run of what the person wants and I say "Ok... I'm going to start this. I'll take X hours to get a draft going, then I'd like to meet up for X-minutes on Y-date to go over questions I have. That way you can let me know if I'm going down the wrong path". Also, it could be a specific area that you need help in and if the company fosters growth, they should have some development opportunities that could cover those gaps. For example, they might have courses that you can take or they can send you to one. That also is something you could ask HR.

So I strongly suggest coming up with that plan and going in for a sit down with the guy. Be honest and let him know that while the criticism are helping you learn and hopefully get better, you're also concerned about not meeting his standards, the expectation of the projects and that you're taking up too much of his time. Not that you're not capable nor willing, but that your working style seems different from his, that coupled with some knowledge gaps that you're working on, but you're learning to be better and more efficient. Let him know that this is how you plan to approach assignments to see if that can improve your work collaboration with him and that you'd appreciate his support in trying it out. Also point out that if he has any suggestions he thinks could be a good compromise, you'd like to consider them. Such suggestions does not include "try harder" since there's something apparently lacking in the way he believes the work should approached and the way you're naturally programmed to do it.

I'm not a fan of spending all of my hours at work. I'd rather be home sleeping. I'm also not a fan of going to a place where I spend the majority of my waking house yet I'm stressed all day, trying to avoid someone I really can't avoid, then going home dreading going back the next day. When that happened to me, I just packed up and went to grad school. Best decision I've made. 

It's easy for us to tell you what to do, but seriously, if you're not going to talk to the guy and see how things could change, I'd strongly suggest looking into that transfer or finding a different job. I've been there... All it will take is for something else in your life to go wrong and you'll have a breakdown.

DuckFlats said:

My first suggestion would be to ask other junior engineers for reviews and advice on projects. Managers typically don't like to be bothered with a ton of small questions that could be answered by a coworker (not saying that is your case). Also, instead of multiple visits, compile a list of questions, set up a meeting and go over them all at once. Find other projects and review them compared to what your doing. It sounds like you went from a manager to that is very open to one that takes the "Trial by fire" approach. I'd say with only being there for 4 months, it's a little early to make any big changes. Your current manager may be swamped and stressed just like yourself. Just my two cents. It's hard to judge without being in your situation. I started out with a private firm in a trial by fire environment. It can suck at times, and to be honest, 50 hrs a week is nothing in a typical private firm, especially if things are balls to the wall. I get that you learn visually, but you have to remember, that isn't necessarily how people teach. There is also the possibility that your manager is just an a-hole and tough to work for, but you probably need to put more time in to really find that out.

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Thanks for your reply.

I have been going to others for advice, but I have noticed when I go to others, he doesn't like others approaches as much. I also do look off of other projects when I see a situation that I have remembered.

I have tried to explain it to him on numerous occasions that I am trying my best and I am writing what your saying down but its hard for me to process all this information in one session. But he tells me that if he goes up to his boss and says that he won't accept it etc etc. I have been trying ever since he has become my boss to actually adapt to his style but I just dont have it in me anymore. Its almost everyday I go into his office and hear these comments. I sit and think about it all day if its me thats the problem or him. I have come a long way from where I started, but i feel he doesn't feel like that. I am thinking to just go up to the President on Monday and talk to him about it and if he could move me. I feel I have skills that can help on company's projects, but if I keep getting put down I can't produce results because that just makes me feel whatever I have done is garbage, if you know what I mean.

This is my first Engineering job out of college and I didn't expect to be going through hell like I am right now. Basically having no life and just being stressed and depressed all the time. Do you think I should just approach the President of the company and let him know how I feel and ask for a change in supervisors? 

It's tough. To be honest, no job is worth making you feel like crap all the time. There are ups and downs to any job and sometimes everything hits at once. Regardless of what you decide, do not burn any bridges. Write down what you plan to say, just so you know it. It can be a tough conversation.

bulls2030 said:

This is my first Engineering job out of college and I didn't expect to be going through hell like I am right now. Basically having no life and just being stressed and depressed all the time. Do you think I should just approach the President of the company and let him know how I feel and ask for a change in supervisors? 

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I suppose it depends on the size of the company. 

Please don't take this as judgement but I think your mind is made up. And that is understandable. 

If your company has an HR department or person, I strongly suggest to go there first. In reality, they're there to defend the interest of the company but it also helps you to follow their framework for approaching conflict. If it were a union job, you'd go to your union (that's mostly government/state engineering positions).

The second thing I would suggest is to go to your next-in-line supervisor or a supervisor at the same level as this guy. You can ask him how to go about switching positions, supervisor or department. If you get no resolution or there's no next-in-line supervisor, I suppose going to the president would be appropriate. Personally, I'd also be on the lookout for something else somewhere else until I find one, just in case you are told there's no other option to change supervisor.

Good luck!

jijir83 said:

I suppose it depends on the size of the company. 

Please don't take this as judgement but I think your mind is made up. And that is understandable. 

If your company has an HR department or person, I strongly suggest to go there first. In reality, they're there to defend the interest of the company but it also helps you to follow their framework for approaching conflict. If it were a union job, you'd go to your union (that's mostly government/state engineering positions).

The second thing I would suggest is to go to your next-in-line supervisor or a supervisor at the same level as this guy. You can ask him how to go about switching positions, supervisor or department. If you get no resolution or there's no next-in-line supervisor, I suppose going to the president would be appropriate. Personally, I'd also be on the lookout for something else somewhere else until I find one, just in case you are told there's no other option to change supervisor.

Good luck!

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Thanks for your advice.

The reason I was thinking to go to the President was because my old bosss (Bob) always told me if there is something bothering you that I would approach him because he's an understandable guy and will listen to your concerns. I could go to HR too. I didn't think about going to HR until you mentioned it. I feel I have mentioned to Ron too many times that I need some time etc and now he's just pushing me more and more and it is past my limit. I don't feel he understands me. I do feel I can still help this company on projects and I have come a long way from where I started about a year ago. I do agree that its good to start looking elsewhere.

P.S. Are you keeping in touch with Bob? I would, especially if you intend to look elsewhere and he might still be able to advise on how to approach things. 

Besides that, it would be a good thing to get in touch with him since you considered him a mentor. As young engineers, we tend to not network and keep people in our address book. I only realize how little I keep in touch when I was applying for the PE and needed references to meet my experience requirement over a number of years. And those are people I had good relationships with, yet I didn't keep in touch. Once they move on or I do, I don't really approach them. It gets awkward to do so when you need something. Get back in touch with Bob and everyone else you've worked with before (currently at this company or elsewhere), especially if they appreciated your work and efforts. Also, the best time to find a job is when you have a job. So, unless nothing gets done and you're losing your mind, stick around until you find one.

I was in the opposite situation as you.  My first mentor was horrible.  I started as an intern and knew next to nothing. They thru a code and ASHRAE book at me my first day and expected me to size piping.  I thought I was way out of my league and should know what I am doing.  The mentor could never be wrong.  I would correct them and they would either claim that is what they said or tell me I was wrong, even when I wasn't.  I seriously looked into switching my major.  I hated my job and dreaded coming into work.  Before I changed majors, I really looked around and realised I was two steps ahead of kids that started the same time as me.  The mentor latter moved on to another company.  

My second mentor was a polar opposite.  They would patt me on the back when good and explain indetail when I was wrong.  

Even though mentor #1 helped me grow very fast, I would not take that type of attitude today.  A mentor should not make you hate your job. That said, I utilize things from both of those mentors when I am mentoring the interns.

My advice is to reach out to Bob for advice, if you are able.  He may know that Ron was an arse and tell you who to talk to.  If not, I would then have a sit down with Ron and explain how you feel and emphasis the little experience you still have, as well as all the extra time you put in.  Last resort is to go to HR or the main boss.  This way you can explain that you have already had a meeting with Ron and nothing changed.  In my experience, most companies know of the bad apple management they have and should be understanding.

Whatever you do, do something.  You can not sit there and keep getting beat up.  It will eat you up and take the drive out of learning.

Good luck.

JalapenoScott said:

I was in the opposite situation as you.  My first mentor was horrible.  I started as an intern and knew next to nothing. They thru a code and ASHRAE book at me my first day and expected me to size piping.  I thought I was way out of my league and should know what I am doing.  The mentor could never be wrong.  I would correct them and they would either claim that is what they said or tell me I was wrong, even when I wasn't.  I seriously looked into switching my major.  I hated my job and dreaded coming into work.  Before I changed majors, I really looked around and realised I was two steps ahead of kids that started the same time as me.  The mentor latter moved on to another company.  

My second mentor was a polar opposite.  They would patt me on the back when good and explain indetail when I was wrong.  

Even though mentor #1 helped me grow very fast, I would not take that type of attitude today.  A mentor should not make you hate your job. That said, I utilize things from both of those mentors when I am mentoring the interns.

My advice is to reach out to Bob for advice, if you are able.  He may know that Ron was an arse and tell you who to talk to.  If not, I would then have a sit down with Ron and explain how you feel and emphasis the little experience you still have, as well as all the extra time you put in.  Last resort is to go to HR or the main boss.  This way you can explain that you have already had a meeting with Ron and nothing changed.  In my experience, most companies know of the bad apple management they have and should be understanding.

Whatever you do, do something.  You can not sit there and keep getting beat up.  It will eat you up and take the drive out of learning.

Good luck.

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thanks for the advice. I have mentioned to ron in between conversations that this is all new for me but he doesnt seem to understand. i really feel i should go to HR or the main boss and talk to him about how I feel and if he could put me elsewhere. I have come a long way in a year but I still have a lot to learn. 

Have u talked to other coworkers that interact with Ron to see if they are treated the same way?

It's tough but I would defin have a "one on one" with your direct supervisor before going to HR or another manager?

But a lot of managers in our field are terrible at dealing with people and figure that you will figure it out without their help..

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As mentioned before, I would recommend going to some of the other guys who are at the same level as you but may have already been doing site design to get a "pre-review" before you go to Ron.  Also, when you go over plans with him, doesn't he go over them with you and redline the drawings with the changes he wants?  I never worked with an Engineer who doesn't do that.  It would be incredibly difficult to explain to someone how to make corrections rather than drawing the changes on the plans in red pen.  When you make the corrections, you can then highlight them to make sure you get them all which will help avoid multiple trips to Ron's office.  MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THE MARKED UP DRAWINGS!!!  I guarantee that at some point he's going to say you changed something you weren't supposed to so it's nice to be able to go back and check the marked up plans.

If he doesn't want to do it that way then he may just be an A-hole or a poor Engineer because I used to do site design and I'm not sure how you can explain how to design a site and expect someone to then sit down and do it.