Mechanical test

Lowly aeronautical engineer here with no better option than the thermal and fluids systems afternoon ME exam. Was my first time taking the test after 10 months of studying with PPI materials (didn't take the class). There were maybe three questions in my degree field but overall didn't think it was a bad test, morning and afternoon was similar in difficulty.  Anyone else have a similar experience on the April ME test?

I took the mechanical systems depth. I design pistons so no questions that I can remember were directly related to my job but it is the basics that I can apply. I thought the afternoon was slightly more difficult but overall the exam wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting. I put 6 months of studying in, now to wait and see if that was enough...

I had contemplated taking the mechanical systems afternoon but have no experience with vibrations and acoustics. I feel the HVAC guys have a great deal going because the ones I have worked with actually do what is on the afternoon test on a daily bases. They just had to study the general material for the AM test and were good to go. Like most things in life, it seems the people who prepare properly do OK. Fingers are crossed...

That was my experience.  I do a lot with heat transfer and design so I was on the fence.  Went with TFS.  Once I got in to the crux of it I realized how little it applied to what I do (probably MSM was more up my alley), but I pressed on and passed anyway.

scatsob said:

I had contemplated taking the mechanical systems afternoon but have no experience with vibrations and acoustics. I feel the HVAC guys have a great deal going because the ones I have worked with actually do what is on the afternoon test on a daily bases. They just had to study the general material for the AM test and were good to go. Like most things in life, it seems the people who prepare properly do OK. Fingers are crossed...

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I agree. The afternoon HVAC was a breeze for me.  Most of the things I do on a regular basis.  Some questions were a little out there.

The morning was a littlte tough for me, but I hope my afternoon performance carries my score.

scatsob said:

I had contemplated taking the mechanical systems afternoon but have no experience with vibrations and acoustics. I feel the HVAC guys have a great deal going because the ones I have worked with actually do what is on the afternoon test on a daily bases. They just had to study the general material for the AM test and were good to go. Like most things in life, it seems the people who prepare properly do OK. Fingers are crossed...

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Even people who work with vibration problems don't do most the vibes stuff asked about on the MS afternoon section, so I think most are on a level playing field there. 

I only wished I was handed a nice neat equation in my past life of doing vibration work! 

I was about 50/50 on TFS or MS sections, as my experience hits on a lot of topics in both, but in the end I decided I'm doing much more MS stuff at this current moment, so I'd stick with that. I think it was the right call for me. The HVAC test does look the easiest if you do that on a daily basis (and is borne out by the pass percentages), as it tends to be more narrowly focused. But it does have more code-oriented questions, so there is that.

scatsob said:

Lowly aeronautical engineer here with no better option than the thermal and fluids systems afternoon ME exam. Was my first time taking the test after 10 months of studying with PPI materials (didn't take the class). There were maybe three questions in my degree field but overall didn't think it was a bad test, morning and afternoon was similar in difficulty.  Anyone else have a similar experience on the April ME test?

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I'm a mechanical engineer with aerospace concentration, and still challenged by either the MD or Thermal Fluids exam which I just tried and thought was harder to understand the questions compared to machine design.  I thought the am was fair but struggled with the pm section. At this point really questioning whether it makes sense to even try to get through this after already taking a handfull of times. I dont know how everyone else feels but as someone else said its very time consuming to prepare for this exam, not to mention the cost, and how consuming it is just makes you wonder whether or not its worth the energy....

smecheng said:

I'm a mechanical engineer with aerospace concentration, and still challenged by either the MD or Thermal Fluids exam which I just tried and thought was harder to understand the questions compared to machine design.  I thought the am was fair but struggled with the pm section. At this point really questioning whether it makes sense to even try to get through this after already taking a handfull of times. I dont know how everyone else feels but as someone else said its very time consuming to prepare for this exam, not to mention the cost, and how consuming it is just makes you wonder whether or not its worth the energy....

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Of course its worth the energy.  You will get there, and when you do, you'll be glad you put in the effort.

smecheng said:

I dont know how everyone else feels but as someone else said its very time consuming to prepare for this exam, not to mention the cost, and how consuming it is just makes you wonder whether or not its worth the energy....

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On the other side of the coin... Civil exam may be easier and the pay may be lower than a mech/aero engr, so this may not apply to you. I failed last fall and told myself I'd only take once more, ever. It's a lot of time and expense, not to mention the stress on family/home life. I've already spent $ beyond my licensing bonus in references, exam fees, online prep classes. If I keep taking it, the cost outweighs the benefit. IMO it's not personal, it's business. If it isn't a lucrative decision, why pursue it? I could spend the same amount of time and money on some other entrepreneurial pursuit that might earn a greater return. It's something to think about to determine what's right for you.

I do agree that it's strange for the aerospace people because we straddle both the TF and MD tests. I chose TF because my interests are more fluids related so I figured it would be easier for me to teach myself what I didn't get in college that would be on the exam.

As far as being worth it, unfortunately in my chosen career I have to have my PE or I won't get promoted, so I'll do whatever it takes. 

What part of aerospace requires a PE? I only met one PE in my 8 years in Aerospace out of thousands of engineers I worked with, and that lone guy got it when he was doing power plant work.

While trained as an Aerospace Engineer, I joined the NAVY during school and am a Civil Engineer Corps officer.  We are required to get our PE or we don't promote to O-4.  My community believes (for some reason) that we need our PE's to be on par with our colleagues on the civilian side when we are not doing war stuff.  In fairness most of the people in this community are Civil, I have yet to meet another Aero guy.  I don't agree with the requirement but it is what it is.

That makes sense. Honestly, for Civil, I'd say almost all engineers should be getting their PE.

I'm a mechanical eng. in oil and gas, and I'm not sure I agree with how the concept of the "PE exemption" is applied in a lot of cases. Same with aerospace... It's like those industries took a very specific exemption made for reasons that probably made sense many decades ago, and stretch and expanded that to include a lot more than it was probably ever envisioned to include. 

Anyway, that's a rant for another day...

I agree this is getting way off topic but am curious. Are you saying that aerospace should require the PE?

scatsob said:

I agree this is getting way off topic but am curious. Are you saying that aerospace should require the PE?

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do you perform design work that you are required to attach your name to that could ultimately cause harm to persons or property should your design fail?

Clemson CE said:

do you perform design work that you are required to attach your name to that could ultimately cause harm to persons or property should your design fail?

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Bingo. That edict goes really far in aerospace to where you are touching basically EVERYTHING due to the energies and velocities involved, and that pesky thing called gravity. Even in military aerospace it's inescapable, and in that realm zero drawings are stamped.

I feel like engineers would be pushed into rushing stuff out less in industries once they've got to stamp the work and recognize what liability they are taking for the work they've done.

Def said:

I feel like engineers would be pushed into rushing stuff out less in industries once they've got to stamp the work and recognize what liability they are taking for the work they've done.

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No matter what industry, there will be a certain number of clients that will push you to work faster on a project to get it done within the original schedule/budget. Most of these clients cause the delays due to lack of planning or poor decision making.

But the signature and stamp carry a great deal of liability, so you had better be sure it meets code and standard safety requirements.

I know a PE that hardly even looks at a draft copy of a set of plans. But when asked to sign, he pays very close attention. This leads to last minute changes, revised sections and additional calculations. But at least the end product is correct.

To my knowledge aerospace doesn't rush anything out, I guess depending on your definition of rushing. Most programs go a decade or more before introduction. It would also be strange to have everyone on a project stamping stuff. I have a friend that works on one section of the flaps for the 777, would he just stamp the drawings for his tiny portion of the aircraft?  It's an interesting topic, though I think an aerospace PE is a solution without a problem. I'm a little jaded though. A PE, or 4.0 GPA, doesn't mean you are necessarily worth a **** as an engineer. And I think many can relate to that. 

scatsob said:

To my knowledge aerospace doesn't rush anything out, I guess depending on your definition of rushing. Most programs go a decade or more before introduction. It would also be strange to have everyone on a project stamping stuff. I have a friend that works on one section of the flaps for the 777, would he just stamp the drawings for his tiny portion of the aircraft?  It's an interesting topic, though I think an aerospace PE is a solution without a problem. I'm a little jaded though. A PE, or 4.0 GPA, doesn't mean you are necessarily worth a **** as an engineer. And I think many can relate to that. 

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Correct, however at least with a PE you are taking responsibility for your work.  If you are found negligent in your work, you can lose your PE and thus acts as a safety buffer.  If the industry doesn't require a PE and you are negligent, you may get fired from your current job, but that doesn't prevent you from continuing to work in that field. 

Clemson CE said:

Correct, however at least with a PE you are taking responsibility for your work.  If you are found negligent in your work, you can lose your PE and thus acts as a safety buffer.  If the industry doesn't require a PE and you are negligent, you may get fired from your current job, but that doesn't prevent you from continuing to work in that field. 

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Exactly. I don't think having a PE denotes any superior level of competence, but it does show that you have at least BASIC competence in the area, and are taking responsibility and liability for the engineering work performed within the stamped drawing/package/design.

In my experience, all sorts of stuff is rushed in military aerospace by the ~30-40% of the workforce that does the lion's share of actual work. Unrealistic deadlines are set, and poor Sr. Managers/Directors come up with new ways of threatening their employees to rush stuff out on time to meet those deadlines that are dictated to them by people who don't really understand the engineering process, and really don't care to learn about it. They just want X by some date set in some DC meeting room.

But I'll agree if you're talking about relative schedule pressures, as compared to some other industries, the schedule pressures are very light. In my experience in oil and gas, the only constant anywhere, at any time is unrealistic schedule pressures (and lots of people that don't know anything about engineering, but that's a whole 'nother topic).