Morning Structural Exam Ridiculousness

So this happened, no exaggeration

Sitting at the office, I get an email from NCEES saying I wasn't approved to sit for the April exam in Indiana (mind you, I had been registered forever, this was my 3rd try at lateral). After a mini freak out since it is the day before the registration closes, I call Indiana. This is the conversation that transpired

Me: I just received notice that I wasn't approved to sit for the SE exam, I was told I didn't need further approvals, I have the paper in my hand right now

PLA: Okay, what is your name and social? Hold on let me check

*10 minutes on hold*

PLA: Okay sir, the reason you don't have approval is because you are not allowed to take the test more than 3 times without passing

Me: You are incorrect, we have 5 years after achieving an acceptable score on one portion, I am currently reading that

PLA: Please hold

*5 more minutes*

PLA: Sir, I have confirmed with my superior, you aren't allowed to sit for the PE exam after failing 3 times.

Me: I told you I am not sitting for the PE, I am sitting for the SE exam, structural engineering

PLA: Ohhhh, one second please

*10 more minutes on hold*

PLA: Okay sir, we aren't allowing that exam anymore, we stopped that in April

Me: No, I took it in October, there were 7 of us in there, plus I called NCEES and they said they confirmed you were offering the exam, and it is verified on their website

PLA: One second please

*hold again*

PLA: Okay sir, we recently decided to not offer the exam anymore, we thought we contacted everyone, but apparently we didn't.

Me: So was deciding to tell me the day before registration closes the best idea? Or maybe decide to tell me after the October exam since ive been studying for this test for 9 months?

PLA: Well you can try Ohio or Illinois

Me: Registration closes tomorrow, I basically have 24 hours to coordinate 2 states and get approval and sign up. Plus I am out the 50 dollar processing fee since you didn't inform me

PLA: Best of luck to you sir

*hangs up the phone*

You have got to be kidding me! So now I am scrambling trying to get verified by Ohio in less than 20 hours (don't see it happening, but I am hoping they can waive the processing fee if I promise to send it later on)

My first thought is that since you were given one answer, provided them additional information, and given a completely different answer, they are full of it.

Do you have a current PE registration in Indiana? I didn't even have to apply to Kentucky since I already had PE registration.

Also, I don't know where the test location is in Ohio, but we're pretty friendly down here, too.

CRNewsom said:

My first thought is that since you were given one answer, provided them additional information, and given a completely different answer, they are full of it.

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Agreed. The first part sounded like one of those "three strikes and you're out" or you have to take additional prep classes or something before they'll approve you again. I think many states have those rules.

But then the second part about not offering the exam anymore? That sounds suspect. I think I saw somewhere where someone posted a link to ncees website where it shows what exams are offered in whcih state. I'll have to see if I can find that.......

Exactly, I found that and it still says it is being offered in Indiana (through NCEES), but Indiana is not issuing approvals for it because they "don't recognize that test anymore" according to those I spoke to. Ohio was very nice, as well as Kentucky, but both said the approval deadline was up and I would have to take it in October. At least they were helpful. I think at the beginning, she thought I was taking the PE exam, but I surely hope that she wasn't confusing the two. I called a buddy of mine who was trying to sign up for the test and he got the same response, they weren't offering it anymore. Ridiculous

And yes, I have a PE license in Indiana. Just trying to pass the test so I can get SE in Illinois etc.

Well I finally got a hold of the director of licensing in Indiana and this was what I was told.

Indiana will no longer issue approvals to sit for a second professional exam. Meaning, if I have my EIT, I have the choice of getting approval to sit for the SE exam, or the PE exam (even though they don't issue an SE license). Since they enacted this rule after the October 2013 exam, I am essentially screwed. I have my PE license already, which means I already used up my "approval" for an exam. Thus meaning they will no longer allow me to sit for the SE exam. They will still offer it in Indiana, but they will not let me sit because I am already licensed professionally. Apparently I was flagged because the Indiana rule is only 3 tries for a professional exam. Since I tried the lateral twice and vertical once, that counted as 3, so I got flagged as 3 failures, even though NCEES says I have 5 years to pass the lateral portion. So Ohio or Kentucky here I come.

On the plus side, she did write me back a letter of formal apology and said she was having an emergency meeting to address the blatant miscommunication among her staff members since everything I was told was completely wrong.

That's a bummer and unfortunately, not totally surprising given my experience with a few different licensing boards. Although, to be fair, some of the people I've worked with have been really helpful and courteous.

I have to ask - if your ultimate goal is SE licensure in Illinois, why don't you just take the exam there? SE licensure seems to be the most volatile and it may be years or even decades before NCEES and the states sort out the examination and title, practice, and other acts. It seems like the safest bet is to go get the license in the jurisdiction you want. Especially Illinois since they have the oldest national SE practice act. But I would understand why you wouldn't go that route for several different reasons.

Holy crap! I would be irate, as if taking the exam isn't stressful enough. I'm surprised NCEES didn't notify you sooner as they should have their finger on the pulse of this stuff.

bassplayer45,

not to discount the frustration that you are no doubt experiencing, it is important to understand that while NCEES may have published guidelines for their testing, it is up to the licensing board to decide whether to implement those guidelines and not NCEES. The licensing board is the only entity that has legislative authority to limit the amount of times that you sit for a licensing exam. While NCEES has valid rationale to support the testing guidelines, many jurisdictions do have the limit of 3 times while others do not.

CAPLS said:

bassplayer45,

not to discount the frustration that you are no doubt experiencing, it is important to understand that while NCEES may have published guidelines for their testing, it is up to the licensing board to decide whether to implement those guidelines and not NCEES. The licensing board is the only entity that has legislative authority to limit the amount of times that you sit for a licensing exam. While NCEES has valid rationale to support the testing guidelines, many jurisdictions do have the limit of 3 times while others do not.

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Completely agree, this is part of the frustration because each one is so different. Someday everyone will get on the same page, but that day is a long ways away

Just now reading this. That's horrible, I can't believe that this happened to you. I really hope they take this seriously because that's extremely unacceptable. Are you going to hear back from the director of licensing? I assume you can carry over your vertical pass into another state as long as they approve the scores, correct?

Well, it doesn't make much sense for Indiana to administer the SE exam since they don't have a separate SE license.

The state's approval may be completely unnecessary, since you already have a PE license. Check with NCEES. You may need to just register with them, pay the fee, and sit for the exam. You may have shot yourself in the foot by even asking permission.

Yeah, i spoke with NCEES and they said that when i register for the exam, the first thing they do is verify with the state for approval, if it isnt on record, they say i can't sit. Tried to circumvent the system, but oh well. Ohio gave me 6.5 years of good school, they can have me for finishing the lateral portion of the test. The license administrator in Ohio was very sympathetic and said she would personally handle getting me signed up in the fall, so small bonus

bassplayer45 said:

Yeah, i spoke with NCEES and they said that when i register for the exam, the first thing they do is verify with the state for approval, if it isnt on record, they say i can't sit. Tried to circumvent the system, but oh well. Ohio gave me 6.5 years of good school, they can have me for finishing the lateral portion of the test. The license administrator in Ohio was very sympathetic and said she would personally handle getting me signed up in the fall, so small bonus

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Awesome congrats man! Now get your nose in those books and study hard so there's no chance of another failure. You got this!