PE performing incidental surveying. Massachusetts 250cmr, how do you interpret this?

Is this one of the new changes to 250cmr from November 2013? I just received my license so am not 100% familiar with the pre 2013 250 cmr.

"A Professional Engineer qualified in the Branch of civil engineering may also perform land surveying incidental to his or her engineering work relative to locating or relocating any of the Fixed‑works embraced within the practice of civil engineering, but excluding the determination of property lines."

Does that mean that MA Engineers can no longer call out proposed structure offsets to property lines? I know historically it is usual for us engineers to call out offsets to proposed residential foundations, septics, etc and just write a note that says "this plan is not used to determine property lines" or something to that effect.

What this means is that you can locate your structure WITHIN given property lines. (Note that a professional land surveyor must determine the property lines in the first place)

Basically, you can use surveying to find where you are to put something within a plot of land using the property lines as your datum.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply Kevo.

So say the property lines have been established. Say I want to propose a new septic. Can I show lot lines I have surveyed from a deed or older recorded plan to show my offsets? Or do the lines need to be reestablished by a PLS?

All lot lines must be given from a PLS.

You can simply survey where you want the septic system to go off of using the lot lines.

This rule makes some sense. I can't tell you how many times we'd have a professional survey done as a base plan, only to realize we needed a few ground shots or a fire hydrant along the way. We were a small place without a surveyor in-house, so we brought in the surveyor we worked with and blow half a day's at the crew's rate for something one of us could have gone out there with a GPS unit and taken care of it Plus you'd end up sitting on the job until they scheduled it in.

Ok guys.

Say client hires me to design a new structure.

Governing authorities require proposed structure to existing property line offsets to be shown on plan. The property is existing and I want to propose a new structure on it.

Do I need to sub contract a surveyor to re survey the property that is set forth in the recorded plans/deeds? Can I perform an incidental survey on my own? There are plenty of property boundries in the area where I can easily locate the PL. After I perform this incidental survey can I show offsets to the property lines, and note on the plan "this plan is not used to determine property lines"

What does state of MA mean by "may also perform land surveying incidental to his or her engineering work relative to locating or relocating any of the Fixed‑works embraced within the practice of civil engineering"? Is this what I am essentially doing?

meaty_matt: You cannot perform the property survey. While there are plenty of bounds in the area, there is no way for you to say with certainty that you are within the offsets for the new system. You can perform a TOPO survey and locate all existing structures and elevations, but without having a surveyor set the PL and you locate their work, you are out of your jurisdiction.