Why continue to censor?

Though I understand the goal of protecting NCESS copyrighted material and strongly support protecting intellectual property(IP), using censorship as a means to achieve it is deplorable in itself. Surely there must be a way to protect IP without muzzling speech.

There is an ominous feeling of being behind the "great firewall of china" especially knowing that the FE thread and many parts of this site is still being censored.

If you can't handle not disclosing copyrighted test materials, then you will probably struggle in your professional career where non-disclosure of trade secrets or intellectual property is a requirement and "censorship", as you term it, is the rule. The guidelines for discussion of the test are quite clear and allow much latitude, provided the NCEES' intellectual property is not disclosed.

If you'd like the full experience I 'm sure they can arrange to run you over with a tank.

seandapaul24 said:

Though I understand the goal of protecting NCESS copyrighted material and strongly support protecting intellectual property(IP), using censorship as a means to achieve it is deplorable in itself. Surely there must be a way to protect IP without muzzling speech.

There is an ominous feeling of being behind the "great firewall of china" especially knowing that the FE thread and many parts of this site is still being censored.

Click to expand...

I'm confused as to what it is that is bothering you so much. What is it exactly that you want changed? What is your proposed solution to the "problem"?

ptatohed said:

I'm confused as to what it is that is bothering you so much. What is it exactly that you want changed? What is your proposed solution to the "problem"?

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Now where did we put that list of Occupy Wall Street demands....

BluSkyy said:

If you can't handle not disclosing copyrighted test materials, then you will probably struggle in your professional career where non-disclosure of trade secrets or intellectual property is a requirement and "censorship", as you term it, is the rule. The guidelines for discussion of the test are quite clear and allow much latitude, provided the NCEES' intellectual property is not disclosed.

Click to expand...

That's obviously not the issue. Like I said I have no problem protecting IP. I believe reading and understanding the issue at hand will help you in your career.

ptatohed said:

seandapaul24 said:

Though I understand the goal of protecting NCESS copyrighted material and strongly support protecting intellectual property(IP), using censorship as a means to achieve it is deplorable in itself. Surely there must be a way to protect IP without muzzling speech.

There is an ominous feeling of being behind the "great firewall of china" especially knowing that the FE thread and many parts of this site is still being censored.

Click to expand...

I'm confused as to what it is that is bothering you so much. What is it exactly that you want changed? What is your proposed solution to the "problem"?

Click to expand...

1) Finding a way to protect IP without suppressing speech.

2) The FE/EIT thread is still locked.

benbo said:

If you'd like the full experience I 'm sure they can arrange to run you over with a tank.

Click to expand...

Right...but what I was saying was I don't even want part of the experience.

The fact that NCEES makes you sign a statement does not automatically make what they do right. The fact that they are lazy and want to recycle the same tired set of exam questions, which are only modestly enhanced every exam cycle, should not give them legal control over your right to free speech. This is not an intellectual property rights issue, as they are not going after someone who is stealing exam questions to create (and claim property rights over) material that competes with and undermines their products. The only other instance (that I can think of) where party A that has access to information completely legally can be put under a gag order by party B is in matters of national security. I know NCEES has successfully prosecuted folks for 'divulging exam information' but the one recent case I know the details of was one where the prosecuted party went into that scenario with the purpose of profiting from that 'secret' information. Never, ever in my life have I heard of an exam where the examinees are under a gag order after an exam. A competent lawyer could easily rip apart that agreement we signed, or at least define some reasonable limits on it, in my opinion.

Oh, great, now I am on NCEES' black list!

Civilized.... I come from a legal background. You are wrong. We all signed it, it is binding and they will win. If you disagree, then have at it.

An unreasonable contract is reversible in spite of being signed. This contract is like one signed under duress. I do not come from a legal background, have no intention of taking on NCEES (am basically middle class and non-confrontational in nature) and have an already busy life. Just stating what my common sense indicates. And I am big enough to admit that there might be a possibility (miniscule) that I am wrong.

The reason the NCEES won that most recent lawsuit for divulging test materials was not because the person profited from the information. The NCEES proved actual damages in court. They provided data that showed that it cost them roughly $1 Million to develop enough questions to replenish the question bank after the compromised questions were removed. College professors and industry professionals develop these questions, and work very hard on the correct and incorrect solutions. They questions are then vetted by a separate group of people before being added to an exam. Then, the questions are continually evaluated every time they are used in an actual exam. The NCEES does retire questions from time to time, and they use those questions to develop practice exams.

Aside from the recently offered Record program, the FE and PE exams are the only way that the NCEES makes money. Therefore, the exam questions are their intellectual property. Your free speech argument is like saying that pirating movies, music or software should be covered by free speech. It's asinine.

is there still a forum closed? sometimes i miss some buttons when turning it back on..

Main reason we cooperate is to keep some dumbass from asking posting something and getting in trouble......I do hate the punish the many for the actions of a few, but its probably a good idea. give people a few days and its harder to recite a question word for word..

However, I am under no obligatiom from ncees to do so, but I beleive its worthwhile for us to have a friendly relationship with them.

since this is a private medium, censorship doesnt exist here, neither does free speech. this aint the new york times and this aint the government..its kind of a fiendly dictatorship...

i had forgotten to unlock the fe forum for newer members when i turned the full board on....

next time shoot me a pm and I wil catch up..

In addition to Major Highway's point, development and vetting of the test questions is not a low-cost project. If NCEES had to generate a totally new exam every six months, the exam fees would necessarily skyrocket to cover their costs. Which would you rather be complaining about, not being able to talk about the questions or the pile of money they charged you to take it?

Road Guy said:

..its kind of a fiendly dictatorship...

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You're definitely a fiendish dictator, RG.

I say sign the agreement and let them enforce it. The last thing I need is the exam board having to use all new crazy questions which are harder than the other ones. The test is already hard enough lets not make it any harder.

seandapaul24 said:

ptatohed said:

seandapaul24 said:

Though I understand the goal of protecting NCESS copyrighted material and strongly support protecting intellectual property(IP), using censorship as a means to achieve it is deplorable in itself. Surely there must be a way to protect IP without muzzling speech.

There is an ominous feeling of being behind the "great firewall of china" especially knowing that the FE thread and many parts of this site is still being censored.

Click to expand...

I'm confused as to what it is that is bothering you so much. What is it exactly that you want changed? What is your proposed solution to the "problem"?

Click to expand...

1) Finding a way to protect IP without suppressing speech.

2) The FE/EIT thread is still locked.

Click to expand...

NCEES does not make you sign it, if you don't feel like signing, they nicely escort you out...and if you do sign it, stick to it! very simple IMHO

the ends justify the means. aka, getting your PE justifies having to sign an agreement not to discuss said test (and forget it the whole testing process afterwards)