At what point does experience matter more than your major in college/

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tim1981

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I'm looking for some career advice here. I've been in the MEP Engineering field for 5 years, since graduating college with a degree in Math. My official title is "Mechanical Designer" but what that basically means is "CAD guy". I also do load calcs, static pressure calcs, survey work, and generally don't work from redline markups like a straight "cad guy" would, but my primary role on projects is the drawings, and I work for a senior engineer. Meanwhile in my company there are kids straight out of school with engineering degrees that are doing their own designs, working under project managers and department heads, which is what I want to be doing. They've told me I'd need to get an Engineering degree to move up to that position, so I've been taking classes at night that are pre-requisites for grad school and I'm trying to get in to a MSME program. If that falls through my backup plan would be a BSME degree which would be my second BS degree, but either way it's going to take three more years to finish taking classes at night, and I feel I'm ready to design my own systems now. I passed the FE exam in a state where they don't make you wait to graduate to give it to you, so I am a registered EIT

So I'm trying to get a sense for whether what I'm asking for is reasonable. I plan on getting my resume out there to see for myself, but not until after I get in to a Master's program so I don't have to interview looking like an undergrad. In the meantime I'm looking for some input on what other people have experienced and witnessed. In every state, with enough experience you can get your PE without any college degree, but you need to show you have experience doing actual designing, so there must be some point where your experience starts to count for something. My question is when? If I start sending out resumes saying I'm looking for a job as an Engineer based on my 5 years of experience, should I expect to get a lot of responses?

 
So I'm trying to get a sense for whether what I'm asking for is reasonable. I plan on getting my resume out there to see for myself, but not until after I get in to a Master's program so I don't have to interview looking like an undergrad. In the meantime I'm looking for some input on what other people have experienced and witnessed. In every state, with enough experience you can get your PE without any college degree, but you need to show you have experience doing actual designing, so there must be some point where your experience starts to count for something. My question is when? If I start sending out resumes saying I'm looking for a job as an Engineer based on my 5 years of experience, should I expect to get a lot of responses?
I'm almost 100% positive that this isn't true.

 
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If you were calculating and figuring then you were engineering and not just CAD. It counts for experience. Some states allow math and science degrees so long as there was enough math involved for PE. Contact your state and go get your PE!

 
You'd better get an engineering degree if that's what you want to do. Math degree won't cut it.

 
So I'm trying to get a sense for whether what I'm asking for is reasonable. I plan on getting my resume out there to see for myself, but not until after I get in to a Master's program so I don't have to interview looking like an undergrad. In the meantime I'm looking for some input on what other people have experienced and witnessed. In every state, with enough experience you can get your PE without any college degree, but you need to show you have experience doing actual designing, so there must be some point where your experience starts to count for something. My question is when? If I start sending out resumes saying I'm looking for a job as an Engineer based on my 5 years of experience, should I expect to get a lot of responses?
I'm almost 100% positive that this isn't true.
generally 12 or 15 years experience

http://www.ppi2pass.com/ppi/PPIInfo_pg_map-usalink.html

 
Not true in my state:

Section 1. Application Requirements for Engineers and Land Surveyors.

(a) All individuals seeking registration as a professional engineer must possess four (4) years of experience after obtaining a bachelor's degree in an ABET/EAC accredited curriculum or equivalent, prior to seeking registration.

Section 6.Engineer-in-Training Registration Requirements.

(a) An applicant for engineer-in-training registration shall be of good moral character and repute, and

(B) Have earned a bachelor degree in an engineering curriculum. If an applicant is a graduate of a non-accredited four-year engineering degree program, the Board shall evaluate the applicant’s transcript to determine whether it is substantially equivalent to an ABET/EAC accredited curriculum. If the applicant holds a degree(s) from an international university, the applicant must have his/her education evaluated by the education evaluation service provided by NCEES, and the associated evaluation fees are the responsibility of the applicant. If the curriculum is determined to be substantially equivalent, the applicant shall qualify for admission to the fundamentals examination, and

© An applicant shall take and pass the NCEES Fundamentals of Engineering Examination with a minimum score determined by NCEES and approved by the Board.

(i) To qualify for admission to the fundamentals examination on the basis of education, an applicant must be a graduate of or within thirty (30) semester credit hours of graduating from a four-year engineering degree program accredited by ABET/EAC.

Section 7. Professional Engineer Registration Requirements.

(a) An applicant for registration as a professional engineer shall be of good moral character and repute, be registered as an engineer-in-training pursuant to The Act and meet the examination and other requirements of this rule.

(B) An applicant shall have been actively engaged in the practice of engineering for at least four (4) years beginning at the time the applicant received the degree as specified in Section 6 (B). A maximum of one-year may be credited for postgraduate engineering education. Work experience credited toward the four-year active engagement requirement shall be directly related to the applicant's branch of engineering and of a character satisfactory to the Board, which shall be under the direct supervision of a registered professional engineer.

© An applicant who has graduated from a four-year degree program in engineering, accredited by ABET/EAC or an equivalent organization at the time of graduation, and who has been actively engaged in engineering practice of a character satisfactory to the Board for at least twenty (20) years after graduation, is exempt from the Fundamentals of Engineering Examination upon written request and Board approval.

(d) An applicant shall take and pass an NCEES professional engineer examination with a minimum score determined by NCEES and approved by the Board.

 
If you were calculating and figuring then you were engineering and not just CAD. It counts for experience. Some states allow math and science degrees so long as there was enough math involved for PE. Contact your state and go get your PE!
In my state I'd need 12 years experience before I can take the PE, or 4 years experience after receiving a BSME which will take 3 more years. Either way it will be 7 more years (5 years I already have + 7 more = 12 years, eligible by experience or 5 + 3 more to complete BSME + 4 more). So in a sense the BSME isn't worth anything as far as the PE is concerned. Until that day comes, do I have a chance elsewhere to work as an EIT doing his own design?

 
Illinois:

Required experience: EAC Eng degree + 4 yrs exp; MS Eng degree + 3 yrs exp; PhD Eng degree + 2 yrs exp; non-EAC 4-yr Eng degree or related science degree + 8 yrs exp

Kentucky:

Required experience: EAC Eng degree + 4 yrs exp

 
Illinois:Required experience: EAC Eng degree + 4 yrs exp; MS Eng degree + 3 yrs exp; PhD Eng degree + 2 yrs exp; non-EAC 4-yr Eng degree or related science degree + 8 yrs exp

Kentucky:

Required experience: EAC Eng degree + 4 yrs exp
So what is your point? That there are a few states without no experience-only option? Okay, I should have said "most" states not "all" states. Either way there is clear precedent for advancing to that level through experience alone.

 
The way I understand CO law, it requires 8 years of "progressive engineering" experience, of which a BS can be used for 4 years and a MS can be used for an additional 1 year. Education and work experience can't be earned concurrently (ie 1 year of co-op work while full-time student = 1 year, not 1 year of school + 1 year work)

 
Well you shouldn't send out resumes saying you're an engineer because you aren't.

Have you talked to your boss about the situation? It seems you have and they have given you their answer.

At my company on the electrical side, everyone does their own design but only my boss (PE) and a senior designer (20+ years experience) write specs, go to owner meetings, review drawings etc. On the mechanical side there are 4 engineers who do the design portion (selecting equipment, load calcs, whatever else mechanical people do). This has been typical in my experience at 2 MEP firms.

 
I would not expect a lot of responses from companies, but I know others on the board have non-engineering degrees and are now licensed. It seems like it would be easier to be almost complete with an actual engineering degree and selling yourself as an engineer than going off of 5-years of experience, which isn't huge.

 
The way I understand CO law, it requires 8 years of "progressive engineering" experience, of which a BS can be used for 4 years and a MS can be used for an additional 1 year. Education and work experience can't be earned concurrently (ie 1 year of co-op work while full-time student = 1 year, not 1 year of school + 1 year work)
Thanks for the input everyone, but I think we're getting off topic here. I understand what I need to do to get my PE, and it's going to take a while. What I'm trying to figure out is how to best position myself now, not what I need to do to get the PE. I'm looking for a job doing my own design as opposed to helping someone else with their design, similar to what an EIT with an Engineering degree would be doing. Have you met anyone who was able to get that type of job with a degree in math, physics, or something similar? If so how many years of experience did they have before reaching that level?

 
Well you shouldn't send out resumes saying you're an engineer because you aren't.
Are you just trying to argue with me? I never said i was sending out resumes saying I am an Engineer, I said I was going to send out my resume looking for a job where I do my own design. It's common practice in my state for degreed EITs to call themselves Engineers without their PE so yes, I will say that I am looking for a job as an Engineer on the resume. I'm not interested in arguing over semantics of who is and isn't an engineer, lets move the conversation away from this topic because it's not what my question was about.

 
If I start sending out resumes saying I'm looking for a job as an Engineer based on my 5 years of experience, should I expect to get a lot of responses?
I wasn't trying to argue with you...but this was in your original post.

 
I would not expect a lot of responses from companies, but I know others on the board have non-engineering degrees and are now licensed. It seems like it would be easier to be almost complete with an actual engineering degree and selling yourself as an engineer than going off of 5-years of experience, which isn't huge.
Thanks, that is helpful. I do plan on continuing with school even though I could technically get the PE in my state just as quickly without it. That's why I'm waiting to get into a master's program before I start looking. I think once I'm in that puts me at the same level academically as someone with a BSME since most of my peers in class would have BSME degrees. So I should be able to get a better job while I'm doing the MSME program, and not have to continue doing CAD until I finish the program. Would you agree?

 
He is not arguing with you. He is just restating a point that is brought up a lot on this board. Depending on the state, which I don't believe you have stated. There are legal ramifications for misrepresenting oneself as an engineer. Some states are strict others are more lax.

Back to you question, I think that will vary GREATLY on the company. Building up time at one company may get you the opportunity there but without the degree others may not let you do more than what you are currently doing regardless of how long you have doing it. The only way to know is to apply for jobs you think you qualify for and let them tell you if your experience is acceptable. I would list being Engineer intern not engineer though on resumes, or else you could get into misrepresenting yourself issues. If it were for state employement that could prevent you from ever beign able to apply for a state job again.

 
If I start sending out resumes saying I'm looking for a job as an Engineer based on my 5 years of experience, should I expect to get a lot of responses?
I wasn't trying to argue with you...but this was in your original post.
Exactly, I am looking for a job as an Engineer, I'm not claiming that I already am one. Like I said it is common practice in my state for EITs with BSME degrees to have the title "Engineer". There is a distinction between that and a PE. If I say I am looking for a job as a Designer, they're going to read it as looking for a job doing CAD. The point is it's just semantics. I don't care what my title is, I just want to do something more technical than drawing pictures on the computer. My question was about my chances of getting that job, not what it technically should be called.

 
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If I start sending out resumes saying I'm looking for a job as an Engineer based on my 5 years of experience, should I expect to get a lot of responses?
Speaking from an electrical engineering aspect and not knowing your location, my opinion would be that you will have difficulty getting responses from employers for an engineering position. I would say that ALL positions I've previously applied for that had "engineer" as part of the job title required a 4-year engineering degree. You may be able to "sell" yourself to an employer by demonstrating your abilities and referencing various projects you've worked on. But this will vary LARGELY on the particular company you are applying to.

 
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