Oct 2011 Study Plan

So I failed for the second time...I knew that I blew the exam for my first attempt in April 2010 (HVAC), I was dead certain I passed this past October (Machine Design) but apparently that wasn't the case. In Maryland, you have 3 chances to take the exam before you have to wait 3 years to reapply so I decided to take the exam in October 2011 as apposed to April 2011.

I have a masters degree, 5 years out of college and spent about 300 hrs on MERM practice problems and 2 passes through 6MS for Machine Design only. I have Shigley's and MERM subjects tabbed and memorized. I think I will take a pass through of the MERM and practice problems, then work 6MS for HVAC, T/F, and MD. Based on past experience with taking the PE, I realize the key to success is by working as many practice problems you can find so you do not have to rely on skimming MERM/Shigley chapters during the exam.

Has anyone considered taking the PE in October 2011 or has anyone studied for October 2010 starting in Feb 2010, and if so, do you have any tentative study outline? Month by Month? Week by Week?

As someone who has failed twice, please do not post a response that says "What were your weak areas? Why don't you just study your weak areas some more and you should pass. Maybe you didn't do enough problems or dedicate enough time. Just spend some more time and you will be fine."

I appreciate your concern/support but failing multiple times sucks and I would prefer to not hear someone suggest "just work harder"

For all who passed...congrats, I'm a little jealous.

when you went through the MERM did you just focus on the problems? I highly recommend reading MERM, or any version of that reference, like a book from cover to cover. And work the problems again as you go.

snickerd3 said:

when you went through the MERM did you just focus on the problems? I highly recommend reading MERM, or any version of that reference, like a book from cover to cover. And work the problems again as you go.

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1st attempt: cover to cover except Ch 59-68

2nd attempt: cover to cover except Ch 01-13, 59-68

My thought process for this upcoming fall is to study the MERM, but additionally focus on the 6MS for all focus areas so there is no reason not to score a 40/40 on the morning. I also plan on practicing problems in shigleys in more depth as well. I could do majority of the MERM problems, but I found the 6MS questions more realistic to the actual exam.

I don't see you mentioning the NCEES sample exam. I would recommend getting the 2008 and 2001 version of that if possible. Also, the PPI sample exam, not just the MERM practice problems. I wouldn't spend too much time on Shigley problems as they are not intended to be representative of the PE exam.

I am not a fan of reading the chapters for the sake of reading. But that might just be me.

Shaggy said:

I don't see you mentioning the NCEES sample exam. I would recommend getting the 2008 and 2001 version of that if possible. Also, the PPI sample exam, not just the MERM practice problems. I wouldn't spend too much time on Shigley problems as they are not intended to be representative of the PE exam.
I am not a fan of reading the chapters for the sake of reading. But that might just be me.

Click to expand...

I am considering getting a copy of the NCEES sample exam and possibly the PPI sample exam although if the PPI questions are on the same difficulty level as the MERM practice problems, I would put more emphasis on the NCEES problems. If I can manage to get a schedule/plan set up to start in February, I should have more than enough time to take the sample exams. Right now, I am trying to prioritize what books/problems/sample-exams/etc to study and how long to study. I am familiar with where everything is in shigleys and have tabbed what I found important, but haven't tried any problems just because I was running out of time leading up to the exam. I had to use shigleys for a senior level undergrad class and was assigned HW, however that was back in 2004. I could foresee trying some problems as I reread through shigleys again.

I started studying for the Oct 2010 exam back in Jan 2010. I read thru the MERM chapters 14-58 and tried to follow the sample problems. Then I read thru the MERM a second time but actually tried the sample problems on my own. You will be surprised how much you didn't learn by just reading.

Then with two months to go I focused on the following sample exams: 6MS for Machine Design (breadth and depth), 6MS for HVAC and Fluids (breadth only), NCEES Sample exam 2008, and PE Sample Exam from Lindburg (breath and depth for MS). By the time the exam came around I felt completely comfortable with my depth part but was concerned with the morning session. Fortunately most of the mornings questions touch on the basics so I felt like I could work my way thru them using common sense. Anyway I passed and felt like you cannot over prepare for this test because you simply don't know what will be on it. I was really surprised at all the material that wasn't on the exam.

Anyway good luck to you.

I cannot even begin to describe how much posts like this freak me out (and there seem to be many people in this situation). What is the reason for some people passing and others not? My guess is that the main factor is test taking skills (and nerves on test day). Any thoughts?

I have put in about 200 hours up to now. I hope to be able to put in another 200 before the test April. This is so tough on the family. I should have done this when I was single.

This is so similar (on the mental side) to training for a marathon that I went through in 2009 although I think a marathon is easier!

Anyway good luck on your next attempt. I definitely sympathize.

I passed on the first try (Oct 2010 - MD depth). I got my MSME in 2008 and BSME in 2004, so the material might have been a little fresher for me. I spent about 300 hours studying (10 hours a week mid-July to mid-August, 20 hours a week mid-August to mid-September, and 40 hours a week mid-September to mid-October).

I'm a big believer in doing everything you can to simulate test conditions. Sure, you can't replicate it entirely, but do it as best as you can. It's not enough to be able to do the problems, you have to be able to do them in six minutes each (average) and keep your stamina up through 40 problems. I think a lot of people make the mistake of just studying, instead of studying for the test.

I probably worked those SMS problems 8-10 times each. Each time I worked them, if I didn't initially get it right, I kept working it until I did (and this I counted as working it 1 time). Even when I got to the point that I knew it inside and out, I kept working them.

If you're taking MD, I only recommend working the breadth problems for SMS Refrig/HVAC and SMS Thermal/Fluids. If you haven't done so already, buy the NCEES practice exam.

Hope that helps and good luck on your next attempt!

JHood said:

I am considering getting a copy of the NCEES sample exam and possibly the PPI sample exam although if the PPI questions are on the same difficulty level as the MERM practice problems, I would put more emphasis on the NCEES problems. If I can manage to get a schedule/plan set up to start in February, I should have more than enough time to take the sample exams. Right now, I am trying to prioritize what books/problems/sample-exams/etc to study and how long to study. I am familiar with where everything is in shigleys and have tabbed what I found important, but haven't tried any problems just because I was running out of time leading up to the exam. I had to use shigleys for a senior level undergrad class and was assigned HW, however that was back in 2004. I could foresee trying some problems as I reread through shigleys again.

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I'm selling an NCEES 2008 but here is some free advice: to me MD and HVAC are two completely different things. I did HVAC, but really sucked at MD. I understand the connection between HVAC and T/F. What I'm trying to say is, you should really decide on what discipline you want to do. This may depend on your daily work, or the things that you like better. I myself just like HVAC and have an easy time understanding it. but MD, it would be torture and i likely would fail despite studying a lot. Did you see on the scoring evaluation if you did much better in MD than in HVAC?

Second, unless you have too much time, don't focus too much on MERM. Obviously you need to know and tab it well. but the PPI 500 practice problems (they are harder), the PPI sample test and SMS and NCEES sample exam are better to prepare. I heard the MD SMS was really bad. I only can speak of the HVAC SMS, and found them good. If you really run out of problems, you can solve the MERM ones. You also should know all the other reference material. for MD I assume there is more than Shigley. You likely need the ASHRAE books for am. And there may be more MD books, If MD is your thing.

In your situation it was a good idea to take time out and don't take the test in April. Now is a good time to re-focus and ease into the matter. I guess by now you have a good idea how the real test is, thsi shoudl help studying.

JHood said:

I am considering getting a copy of the NCEES sample exam and possibly the PPI sample exam although if the PPI questions are on the same difficulty level as the MERM practice problems, I would put more emphasis on the NCEES problems. If I can manage to get a schedule/plan set up to start in February, I should have more than enough time to take the sample exams. Right now, I am trying to prioritize what books/problems/sample-exams/etc to study and how long to study. I am familiar with where everything is in shigleys and have tabbed what I found important, but haven't tried any problems just because I was running out of time leading up to the exam. I had to use shigleys for a senior level undergrad class and was assigned HW, however that was back in 2004. I could foresee trying some problems as I reread through shigleys again.

Click to expand...

If I had to guess, this is exactly why you failed twice. You may know all the concepts in the MERM like the back of your hand, but the test isn't about what you know, it's about how can you solve the problems. It's just a big game NCEES has set up and you have to play it.Put down the MERM and do practice problems until you can't do them anymore. You'll find yourself being able to find the little tricks that they pull on you and you'll recognize it before it bites you.

One of the biggest "gotchas" that I noticed was units. When you're doing a problem, keep your finger in the front page of the chapter so that you can flip back and see what units are on what equations. For example, sometimes you'll think the problem is in inches based on what you're given, but the equation you need to use is listed in feet. This really kicks you in the teeth when you do a vibrations problem, then you have to switch the units for gravity. Then you'll go to fill out your answer sheet and both the incorrect answer and the correct one are on there. If you dont do problems, you wont recognize this little game NCEES plays.

navyasw02 said:

If I had to guess, this is exactly why you failed twice. You may know all the concepts in the MERM like the back of your hand, but the test isn't about what you know, it's about how can you solve the problems. It's just a big game NCEES has set up and you have to play it.Put down the MERM and do practice problems until you can't do them anymore. You'll find yourself being able to find the little tricks that they pull on you and you'll recognize it before it bites you.
One of the biggest "gotchas" that I noticed was units. When you're doing a problem, keep your finger in the front page of the chapter so that you can flip back and see what units are on what equations. For example, sometimes you'll think the problem is in inches based on what you're given, but the equation you need to use is listed in feet. This really kicks you in the teeth when you do a vibrations problem, then you have to switch the units for gravity. Then you'll go to fill out your answer sheet and both the incorrect answer and the correct one are on there. If you dont do problems, you wont recognize this little game NCEES plays.

Click to expand...

I completely agree. The test for the most part is not very hard as long as you "know your stuff" and have PRACTICE avoiding the booby-traps. Units are one popular trap. Another is giving too much information that is not needed to solve the problem.

I guess that reflect real life. Real life problems also don't always provide the exact amount of information in the units you want.

You also need to know where typical equations are and which ones are the "rule of thumb"equations. For example, you can calculate pumping power with Reynolds number etc. But you also can use a table, and the "rule of thumb"equation and get a result that is similar - except in less time and with less probability to make a mistake (due to shorter calculation). I made a cheat sheet with all the equations, that helped a lot.

When you do the practice problems I mentioned above, you'll know which equations and tables will cover 90% of the test. Keep tabbing while reviewing solutions.

JHood said:

So I failed for the second time...I knew that I blew the exam for my first attempt in April 2010 (HVAC), I was dead certain I passed this past October (Machine Design) but apparently that wasn't the case. In Maryland, you have 3 chances to take the exam before you have to wait 3 years to reapply so I decided to take the exam in October 2011 as apposed to April 2011.
I have a masters degree, 5 years out of college and spent about 300 hrs on MERM practice problems and 2 passes through 6MS for Machine Design only. I have Shigley's and MERM subjects tabbed and memorized. I think I will take a pass through of the MERM and practice problems, then work 6MS for HVAC, T/F, and MD. Based on past experience with taking the PE, I realize the key to success is by working as many practice problems you can find so you do not have to rely on skimming MERM/Shigley chapters during the exam.

Has anyone considered taking the PE in October 2011 or has anyone studied for October 2010 starting in Feb 2010, and if so, do you have any tentative study outline? Month by Month? Week by Week?

As someone who has failed twice, please do not post a response that says "What were your weak areas? Why don't you just study your weak areas some more and you should pass. Maybe you didn't do enough problems or dedicate enough time. Just spend some more time and you will be fine."

I appreciate your concern/support but failing multiple times sucks and I would prefer to not hear someone suggest "just work harder"

For all who passed...congrats, I'm a little jealous.

Click to expand...

I concur...for I've worked my ass off studying and can't imagine how I can work "harder." Granted...I don't have all sorts of hours at my disposal, but I definitely studied as hard as possible with the limited time I have. And I thought I was ready...many times over.

That said, I've signed up for a study course, five weekends in a row, Saturday and Sunday all day...if this doesn't do it, then nothing will. So that is my suggestion...but it hasn't been proven so take it with a grain of salt.

Also, remember there are many who've taken it way more than two times...so hang in there. You're not alone.

Good luck...three times the charm (at least you can't strike out!)

JHood said:

Shaggy said:

I don't see you mentioning the NCEES sample exam. I would recommend getting the 2008 and 2001 version of that if possible. Also, the PPI sample exam, not just the MERM practice problems. I wouldn't spend too much time on Shigley problems as they are not intended to be representative of the PE exam.
I am not a fan of reading the chapters for the sake of reading. But that might just be me.

Click to expand...

I am considering getting a copy of the NCEES sample exam and possibly the PPI sample exam although if the PPI questions are on the same difficulty level as the MERM practice problems, I would put more emphasis on the NCEES problems. If I can manage to get a schedule/plan set up to start in February, I should have more than enough time to take the sample exams. Right now, I am trying to prioritize what books/problems/sample-exams/etc to study and how long to study. I am familiar with where everything is in shigleys and have tabbed what I found important, but haven't tried any problems just because I was running out of time leading up to the exam. I had to use shigleys for a senior level undergrad class and was assigned HW, however that was back in 2004. I could foresee trying some problems as I reread through shigleys again.

Click to expand...

Forget reviewing MERM, you already did that. Work problems. Practice tests and practice problems. You'll be reviewing MERM while you flip back through it to find equations. Get the practice tests! Why do you not have those???!?!?!?! I guess I'm totally confused on you taking the test twice but not taking either the NCEES or PPI practice tests? Forget doing Shigley problems...your focused on the wrong material. The practice tests and practice problems exist because they work. Stick to those.

If I were you I'd do a practice test, all the PPI practice problems thats matter (you don't need to do the math problems...), and the other practice test. Then do them again if you still have time. You'll do great. You obviously have the knowledge and will to do it, just don't get sidetracked and stay focused on the practice material.

Best of luck.

principal said:

JHood said:

Shaggy said:

I don't see you mentioning the NCEES sample exam. I would recommend getting the 2008 and 2001 version of that if possible. Also, the PPI sample exam, not just the MERM practice problems. I wouldn't spend too much time on Shigley problems as they are not intended to be representative of the PE exam.
I am not a fan of reading the chapters for the sake of reading. But that might just be me.

Click to expand...

I am considering getting a copy of the NCEES sample exam and possibly the PPI sample exam although if the PPI questions are on the same difficulty level as the MERM practice problems, I would put more emphasis on the NCEES problems. If I can manage to get a schedule/plan set up to start in February, I should have more than enough time to take the sample exams. Right now, I am trying to prioritize what books/problems/sample-exams/etc to study and how long to study. I am familiar with where everything is in shigleys and have tabbed what I found important, but haven't tried any problems just because I was running out of time leading up to the exam. I had to use shigleys for a senior level undergrad class and was assigned HW, however that was back in 2004. I could foresee trying some problems as I reread through shigleys again.

Click to expand...

Forget reviewing MERM, you already did that. Work problems. Practice tests and practice problems. You'll be reviewing MERM while you flip back through it to find equations. Get the practice tests! Why do you not have those???!?!?!?! I guess I'm totally confused on you taking the test twice but not taking either the NCEES or PPI practice tests? Forget doing Shigley problems...your focused on the wrong material. The practice tests and practice problems exist because they work. Stick to those.

If I were you I'd do a practice test, all the PPI practice problems thats matter (you don't need to do the math problems...), and the other practice test. Then do them again if you still have time. You'll do great. You obviously have the knowledge and will to do it, just don't get sidetracked and stay focused on the practice material.

Best of luck.

Click to expand...

The trick to the exam is not to be panic on the day of the examination. Be relaxed and have confident in yourself. It may seem very easy, but many people ignore this basic reality. The exam is a test of your organization ability, ability to remeber where to find the right information quickly couple with having stidied hard enough. Concentrate on other area in the depth module and study them as if you are going to take them in the afternoon. That was the trick i used. I wanted to take HVAC but i equally studied T&F hard enought that i am equally preapred for the two. MD is my weak are but i masterd the basic i knew is sufficient for AM. With ample time ahead of you, you need to sudy all the three modules as if you are going to take them in the PM, then you will see that come oct. 2011, you will have been prepared enough to pass the exam. On the day of the exam, be relaxed, scan through all the questions, do the one you are able to do first and shade them in the scantron making sure that you shade the right answer for the right question. Leave difficult question first. After you complete the easy question, then spend time to go through the difficult ones. Guess when all efforts to work out difficult question failed. Time is of essence in this exam. spend your time wisely. Work out all the 6MS, NCEES 2008 and 2001, take practise test before the examination and use it to know where you stand. Use AM to boost your chance because PM is always very difficult.

Thank God i passed the first time having applied all this techniques i outlined above.

Good Luck.

Oluade PE.

I appreciate the input from everyone. The general sense from everyone and myself is to work practice problems and don't emphasize on MERM, but rather go back and forth to the MERM while working out problems.

In regards to test taking skills, when I sat for the October exam I was completely calm, felt well prepared, finished early for both the breadth and depth, and thought the exam was pretty easy. I didn't think there were too many "gotcha" problems, but there were a handful that I thought could have been 1 of 2 answers.

Anyway I want to get started soon but my main goal of this thread is to see if anyone has started to study for an October PE in January or February and see what type of study outline they used and if it was successful.

i.e. Problems,

I can figure it out for myself, but I am interested if anyone followed some sort of guidance similar to below:

February: Refresh/skim MERM, MERM Practice Problems T/F

March: MERM Practice Problems HVAC

April: MERM Practice Problems MD

May: NCEES Practice Exam

June: Lindeberg Practice Exam

July: NCEES Practice Problems

August: NCEES Practice Problems, 6MS

Sept: 6MS

Oct: 6MS, NCEES Practice Exam

JHood said:

I appreciate the input from everyone. The general sense from everyone and myself is to work practice problems and don't emphasize on MERM, but rather go back and forth to the MERM while working out problems.
In regards to test taking skills, when I sat for the October exam I was completely calm, felt well prepared, finished early for both the breadth and depth, and thought the exam was pretty easy. I didn't think there were too many "gotcha" problems, but there were a handful that I thought could have been 1 of 2 answers.

Anyway I want to get started soon but my main goal of this thread is to see if anyone has started to study for an October PE in January or February and see what type of study outline they used and if it was successful.

i.e. Problems,

I can figure it out for myself, but I am interested if anyone followed some sort of guidance similar to below:

February: Refresh/skim MERM, MERM Practice Problems T/F

March: MERM Practice Problems HVAC

April: MERM Practice Problems MD

May: NCEES Practice Exam

June: Lindeberg Practice Exam

July: NCEES Practice Problems

August: NCEES Practice Problems, 6MS

Sept: 6MS

Oct: 6MS, NCEES Practice Exam

Click to expand...

I started in January for the Oct 10 exam and this was my outline. Keep in mind I graduated from college in 87 so I was out a long time.

Jan-July: Read the MERM chapters 14-58 twice (yes....I would actually take the book with me everywhere including the beach, starbucks, oil change, etc)

August: Did the MERM practice problems

Sept: Did the MD 6MS, Breadth 6MS for HVAC and Fluids/Thermo

Oct: Did the 2008 NCEES Sample exam and the Lindberg PE Sample exam

Looking back I think I did most of my learning from the 6MS problems, NCEES Sample Exam and the PE SAmple exam. They guide you in the right direction as far as understanding the material as well as how to navigate your way through the MERM. It also helped me write footnotes in the MERM as I learned from my mistakes.

Some really good advice in this thread. I'd like to add that when you do the practice problems, you don't want to have a feeling of "ok, I made it through that chapter, but I don't want to see that type of problem on the exam". If you needed to look at the solutions, you're not ready. Do the problems over again at a later date, from scratch, even if you HATE it. Do them yet AGAIN, until you get to the point where you say to yourself "bring on this kind of problem!".

And yes, pay attention to what units they want. KNOW how the units work out in equations. Getting the units right is crucial.

RobertR said:

Some really good advice in this thread. I'd like to add that when you do the practice problems, you don't want to have a feeling of "ok, I made it through that chapter, but I don't want to see that type of problem on the exam". If you needed to look at the solutions, you're not ready. Do the problems over again at a later date, from scratch, even if you HATE it. Do them yet AGAIN, until you get to the point where you say to yourself "bring on this kind of problem!".
And yes, pay attention to what units they want. KNOW how the units work out in equations. Getting the units right is crucial.

Click to expand...

Another area that is a potential danger that can cause a pitfall is Unit conversion i.e from hP to Watt or other way round, CFM to LFM, GPM to MGD and so on. You neeed to get a conversion book saperatly. M. Lindberg has one which is very good. Do not understimate conversion. It is very very important.

oluade PE said:

RobertR said:

Some really good advice in this thread. I'd like to add that when you do the practice problems, you don't want to have a feeling of "ok, I made it through that chapter, but I don't want to see that type of problem on the exam". If you needed to look at the solutions, you're not ready. Do the problems over again at a later date, from scratch, even if you HATE it. Do them yet AGAIN, until you get to the point where you say to yourself "bring on this kind of problem!".
And yes, pay attention to what units they want. KNOW how the units work out in equations. Getting the units right is crucial.

Click to expand...

Another area that is a potential danger that can cause a pitfall is Unit conversion i.e from hP to Watt or other way round, CFM to LFM, GPM to MGD and so on. You neeed to get a conversion book saperatly. M. Lindberg has one which is very good. Do not understimate conversion. It is very very important.

Click to expand...

I found the appendices to be enough for unit conversions. One of the Appendices has a handy dandy table for instant conversions to GPM/CFM based on pipe size. Saves about half the time for one of those problems.

I remember doing a fair amount of unit conversions this past October, but I didn't think there were too many unit conversions that couldn't be found from the front cover of the MERM, but then again I failed and you passed so I probably missed a few or miscalculated. I am fairly confident in unit conversions but nonetheless, thanks for the advice. I will consider having a bounded/ringed printout for studying as well.

I appreciate the dialogue on preparation materials, but I felt very prepared with my selection of reference material. I do not recall any plug and chug problems where I didn't know where to locate the equations. However I did find an instance or two where the question was conceptual (no math) and it depended on your understanding of principles, not just how well you can read the definitions from MERM or Shigleys.

Thanks to Relvinim for your study timeline. Its the exact type of feedback I was looking for from this thread. If anyone else prepared for an October exam starting in Jan/Feb or started studying for an April exam in July/August and would share their study timeline with the forum, it would be appreciated for the October 2011 examinees (8-9 month preparation timeline).

Thanks