**What do you think?**

After going through the questions I could remember,

I could count about 3 in morning and about 9 in the afternoon I had no clue and had guess. That means about 12 questions I most likely got wrong. Most likely of the remaining questions I answered that I thought I got right, I may have gotten some wrong as well.

I believe the cut score is around 56 right? 70% Do you think this will be cutting it close? For those of you who have passed or failed did you feel like may have done similar and passed or failed. I bet these next two months will be just as grueling as studying haha. Thanks guys.

maximus808 said:

I could count about 3 in morning and about 9 in the afternoon I had no clue and had guess. That means about 12 questions I most likely got wrong.

Click to expand...

With random guessing from a set of 4 possible solutions, if you guessed on 12 of them, you should have statistically gotten 3 correct.

wilheldp_PE said:

maximus808 said:

I could count about 3 in morning and about 9 in the afternoon I had no clue and had guess. That means about 12 questions I most likely got wrong.

Click to expand...

With random guessing from a set of 4 possible solutions, if you guessed on 12 of them, you should have statistically gotten 3 correct.

Click to expand...

Thanks That makes me feel a little better. i just was hoping to answer a majority of the PM questions at least with an educated guess but I couldn't do it for those 12. I hope the cut score magically drops to less than 56

maximus808 said:

wilheldp_PE said:

maximus808 said:

I could count about 3 in morning and about 9 in the afternoon I had no clue and had guess. That means about 12 questions I most likely got wrong.

Click to expand...

With random guessing from a set of 4 possible solutions, if you guessed on 12 of them, you should have statistically gotten 3 correct.

Click to expand...

Thanks That makes me feel a little better. i just was hoping to answer a majority of the PM questions at least with an educated guess but I couldn't do it for those 12. I hope the cut score magically drops to less than 56

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the actual cut score is never revealed. You need 70% to pass, but they'll never tell you how many questions they had removed from the original total of 80. If you're sure that you've properly answered 60 questions, then you're in good shape.

Remember that the other answer choices aren't necessarily random numbers; they can be derived from common errors such as improper variable substitution or unit conversion. This is why some answer choices are very close together and/or just happens to match a calculation.

i guess that's one positive from transportation depth is that there's not much calculations for AASHTO Green book problems which are simply looking up numbers in tables but then again, there's so much references and equations. Thanks.

I guessed wildly on about 7 in the morning and about 10 in the afternoon. I also hope that I get the ones I believe that I got right, correct too. The morning was not too difficult for me except those seven. For some odd reason I could not get any of the answers listed for one of the Geotech morning problems and I am 90 % sure that I had the right equations on hand. In fact the question was almost identital to one I had worked out and brought in as a sample problem, for reference. I almost got messed up in the spending too much time on any particualr problem trap----------It took me about 15 minutes trying to work it before I finally gave up, finally realizing that I had spent too much time on it and just guessed it.

Assuming that I get the ones I answered correctly, that gives a base score of 63 correct.

Only time will tell..Good luck!

Unfortunately, the actual cut score is never revealed. You need 70% to pass, but they'll never tell you how many questions they had removed from the original total of 80. If you're sure that you've properly answered 60 questions, then you're in good shape.

Click to expand...

Huh? It's true you never know the actual cut score. But the 70 to pass is not 70%. It is basically a meaningless number which means you passed. They set a raw cut score, and if you hit that score they call it 70. But I don't know what you mean by "How many problems they removed." I suspect they very seldom remove any problems.

You are correct though, that 60 correct answers is probably good enough. But nobody really knows.

benbo said:

Unfortunately, the actual cut score is never revealed. You need 70% to pass, but they'll never tell you how many questions they had removed from the original total of 80. If you're sure that you've properly answered 60 questions, then you're in good shape.

Click to expand...

Huh? It's true you never know the actual cut score. But the 70 to pass is not 70%. It is basically a meaningless number which means you passed. They set a raw cut score, and if you hit that score they call it 70. But I don't know what you mean by "How many problems they removed." I suspect they very seldom remove any problems.

You are correct though, that 60 correct answers is probably good enough. But nobody really knows.

Click to expand...

The "70" passing grade is indeed a percentage, but it's more of an indicator of the areas that require improvement if you don't pass. My point in the previous post is that NCEES does not publish the actual cut score because it can vary by a couple of points every year, depending on the results. I'm sure the NCEES don't want to deal with a lot of appeals from those who've taken the exam a few times.

And as for removing problems, they probably review the results per questions and if there's an overwhelming amount of wrong answers for a particular question due to possible ambiguities in the question itself, then that question may get scrapped which can slightly increase the chances of passing if you're on the edge. There is some number crunching involved in determining the cut score and this is why the results take a while.

sac_engineer said:

benbo said:

Unfortunately, the actual cut score is never revealed. You need 70% to pass, but they'll never tell you how many questions they had removed from the original total of 80. If you're sure that you've properly answered 60 questions, then you're in good shape.

Click to expand...

Huh? It's true you never know the actual cut score. But the 70 to pass is not 70%. It is basically a meaningless number which means you passed. They set a raw cut score, and if you hit that score they call it 70. But I don't know what you mean by "How many problems they removed." I suspect they very seldom remove any problems.

You are correct though, that 60 correct answers is probably good enough. But nobody really knows.

Click to expand...

The "70" passing grade is indeed a percentage, but it's more of an indicator of the areas that require improvement if you don't pass. My point in the previous post is that NCEES does not publish the actual cut score because it can vary by a couple of points every year, depending on the results. I'm sure the NCEES don't want to deal with a lot of appeals from those who've taken the exam a few times.

And as for removing problems, they probably review the results per questions and if there's an overwhelming amount of wrong answers for a particular question due to possible ambiguities in the question itself, then that question may get scrapped which can slightly increase the chances of passing if you're on the edge. There is some number crunching involved in determining the cut score and this is why the results take a while.

Click to expand...

The 70 is not a percentage. A percentage of what? I don't think they even mention the number 70 on the NCEES web site anymore. Scoring is done using equating.

http://www.ncees.org/Exams/Scoring.php

In the past, and in some states today, they used to assign the number "70" to a passing raw score, and then give scores of "69" or "71" based on that. It was not linear and it had no direct correlation to a percentage at all.

Yes, on rare occasions they eliminate problems. But since these questions come from problem pools that have been used in the past, I suspect that is very rare and makes little effect on the grading. But you are correct that it takes some time.

benbo said:

sac_engineer said:

benbo said:

Unfortunately, the actual cut score is never revealed. You need 70% to pass, but they'll never tell you how many questions they had removed from the original total of 80. If you're sure that you've properly answered 60 questions, then you're in good shape.

Click to expand...

Huh? It's true you never know the actual cut score. But the 70 to pass is not 70%. It is basically a meaningless number which means you passed. They set a raw cut score, and if you hit that score they call it 70. But I don't know what you mean by "How many problems they removed." I suspect they very seldom remove any problems.

You are correct though, that 60 correct answers is probably good enough. But nobody really knows.

Click to expand...

The "70" passing grade is indeed a percentage, but it's more of an indicator of the areas that require improvement if you don't pass. My point in the previous post is that NCEES does not publish the actual cut score because it can vary by a couple of points every year, depending on the results. I'm sure the NCEES don't want to deal with a lot of appeals from those who've taken the exam a few times.

And as for removing problems, they probably review the results per questions and if there's an overwhelming amount of wrong answers for a particular question due to possible ambiguities in the question itself, then that question may get scrapped which can slightly increase the chances of passing if you're on the edge. There is some number crunching involved in determining the cut score and this is why the results take a while.

Click to expand...

The 70 is not a percentage. A percentage of what? I don't think they even mention the number 70 on the NCEES web site anymore. Scoring is done using equating.

http://www.ncees.org/Exams/Scoring.php

In the past, and in some states today, they used to assign the number "70" to a passing raw score, and then give scores of "69" or "71" based on that. It was not linear and it had no direct correlation to a percentage at all.

Yes, on rare occasions they eliminate problems. But since these questions come from problem pools that have been used in the past, I suspect that is very rare and makes little effect on the grading. But you are correct that it takes some time.

Click to expand...

On the CA PELS website, all exams statistics prior to October 2005 show a final cut score of 70%, so I can't imagine the score would have changed since then. For the purposes of this forum and for those who are preparing to take the Principles and Practices exam, a 70% grade would be the expected passing grade but you would never know. I tell first-time takers to aim for 75% (60 out of 80 questions). If they know they have confidently answered that many questions, then they should expect to pass.

sac_engineer said:

benbo said:

sac_engineer said:

benbo said:

Unfortunately, the actual cut score is never revealed. You need 70% to pass, but they'll never tell you how many questions they had removed from the original total of 80. If you're sure that you've properly answered 60 questions, then you're in good shape.

Click to expand...

Huh? It's true you never know the actual cut score. But the 70 to pass is not 70%. It is basically a meaningless number which means you passed. They set a raw cut score, and if you hit that score they call it 70. But I don't know what you mean by "How many problems they removed." I suspect they very seldom remove any problems.

You are correct though, that 60 correct answers is probably good enough. But nobody really knows.

Click to expand...

The "70" passing grade is indeed a percentage, but it's more of an indicator of the areas that require improvement if you don't pass. My point in the previous post is that NCEES does not publish the actual cut score because it can vary by a couple of points every year, depending on the results. I'm sure the NCEES don't want to deal with a lot of appeals from those who've taken the exam a few times.

And as for removing problems, they probably review the results per questions and if there's an overwhelming amount of wrong answers for a particular question due to possible ambiguities in the question itself, then that question may get scrapped which can slightly increase the chances of passing if you're on the edge. There is some number crunching involved in determining the cut score and this is why the results take a while.

Click to expand...

The 70 is not a percentage. A percentage of what? I don't think they even mention the number 70 on the NCEES web site anymore. Scoring is done using equating.

http://www.ncees.org/Exams/Scoring.php

In the past, and in some states today, they used to assign the number "70" to a passing raw score, and then give scores of "69" or "71" based on that. It was not linear and it had no direct correlation to a percentage at all.

Yes, on rare occasions they eliminate problems. But since these questions come from problem pools that have been used in the past, I suspect that is very rare and makes little effect on the grading. But you are correct that it takes some time.

Click to expand...

On the CA PELS website, all exams statistics prior to October 2005 show a final cut score of 70%, so I can't imagine the score would have changed since then. For the purposes of this forum and for those who are preparing to take the Principles and Practices exam, a 70% grade would be the expected passing grade but you would never know. I tell first-time takers to aim for 75% (60 out of 80 questions). If they know they have confidently answered that many questions, then they should expect to pass.

Click to expand...

I'll say it one more time, for the sake of people who care to know the actual facts. It is an artificial cutscore labeled as 70. Not 70%. Nobody knows the cutscore period. It has nothing to do with 70%. I just looked at the PELS site. The PE exam changed completely in October 2000. After that, it just says 70. I see no percent sign, and that is intentional.

http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/ap05stats.shtml

For the percentage of people passing they do put a percentage sign, because it is a percentage.

Starting October 2005 they stopped giving that number "70" at all because it is meaningless.

I never said it was an actual score of 70%, but it is an adjusted one. The cut score in the CA PELS site is 70 out of a possible 100, so in essence it is a percentage, but not an actual score if any adjustments were made. Regardless of the cut score, for anyone taking the exam, I would say they need 70% to pass based on past scores and I wouldn't be totally incorrect. But I would follow that statement by saying that they should strive for 75% to guarantee a pass. Make sense?

sac_engineer said:

I never said it was an actual score of 70%, but it is an adjusted one. The cut score in the CA PELS site is 70 out of a possible 100, so in essence it is a percentage, but not an actual score if any adjustments were made. Regardless of the cut score, for anyone taking the exam, I would say they need 70% to pass based on past scores and I wouldn't be totally incorrect. But I would follow that statement by saying that they should strive for 75% to guarantee a pass. Make sense?

Click to expand...

75% would be a reasonable guess for a safe score. But I reiterate that nobody knows the actual cutscore for any given exam.

Adjustment are made to every test, and most of them have nothing to do with eliminating problems. Even if they don't eliminate a single problem, the cutscore could vary by several points from discipline to discipline and exam to exam, depending on the difficulty of the exam. It is not a curve in the technical sense, but they adjust the exam by equating.

If you agree with that, then you make sense.

Why would it be meaningless? In the past they would give a score as a total percentage and you could determine how close you came. Now, we only shoot for a total number of correct problems and have no idea what the cut score is other than what people assume to be 56 with no assurance of that being the passing score. There is no reason why they cannot give one a cut score just like they did in the past.

benbo said:

sac_engineer said:

benbo said:

sac_engineer said:

benbo said:

Unfortunately, the actual cut score is never revealed. You need 70% to pass, but they'll never tell you how many questions they had removed from the original total of 80. If you're sure that you've properly answered 60 questions, then you're in good shape.

Click to expand...

Huh? It's true you never know the actual cut score. But the 70 to pass is not 70%. It is basically a meaningless number which means you passed. They set a raw cut score, and if you hit that score they call it 70. But I don't know what you mean by "How many problems they removed." I suspect they very seldom remove any problems.

You are correct though, that 60 correct answers is probably good enough. But nobody really knows.

Click to expand...

The "70" passing grade is indeed a percentage, but it's more of an indicator of the areas that require improvement if you don't pass. My point in the previous post is that NCEES does not publish the actual cut score because it can vary by a couple of points every year, depending on the results. I'm sure the NCEES don't want to deal with a lot of appeals from those who've taken the exam a few times.

And as for removing problems, they probably review the results per questions and if there's an overwhelming amount of wrong answers for a particular question due to possible ambiguities in the question itself, then that question may get scrapped which can slightly increase the chances of passing if you're on the edge. There is some number crunching involved in determining the cut score and this is why the results take a while.

Click to expand...

The 70 is not a percentage. A percentage of what? I don't think they even mention the number 70 on the NCEES web site anymore. Scoring is done using equating.

http://www.ncees.org/Exams/Scoring.php

In the past, and in some states today, they used to assign the number "70" to a passing raw score, and then give scores of "69" or "71" based on that. It was not linear and it had no direct correlation to a percentage at all.

Yes, on rare occasions they eliminate problems. But since these questions come from problem pools that have been used in the past, I suspect that is very rare and makes little effect on the grading. But you are correct that it takes some time.

Click to expand...

On the CA PELS website, all exams statistics prior to October 2005 show a final cut score of 70%, so I can't imagine the score would have changed since then. For the purposes of this forum and for those who are preparing to take the Principles and Practices exam, a 70% grade would be the expected passing grade but you would never know. I tell first-time takers to aim for 75% (60 out of 80 questions). If they know they have confidently answered that many questions, then they should expect to pass.

Click to expand...

I'll say it one more time, for the sake of people who care to know the actual facts. It is an artificial cutscore labeled as 70. Not 70%. Nobody knows the cutscore period. It has nothing to do with 70%. I just looked at the PELS site. The PE exam changed completely in October 2000. After that, it just says 70. I see no percent sign, and that is intentional.

http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/ap05stats.shtml

For the percentage of people passing they do put a percentage sign, because it is a percentage.

Starting October 2005 they stopped giving that number "70" at all because it is meaningless.

Click to expand...

Why would it be meaningless? In the past they would give a score as a total percentage and you could determine how close you came. Now, we only shoot for a total number of correct problems and have no idea what the cut score is other than what people assume to be 56 with no assurance of that being the passing score. There is no reason why they cannot give one a cut score just like they did in the past.

Click to expand...

THey never gave the cut score. Period. I don't know why these myths persist. If you passed they would give you a "70" or above, but you had absolutely no idea what percentage that corresponded with.

Now, they give you percentages if you fail. Even then you don't know what the passing score is. You only know you are below it.

I give up. Believe me or not. It's not fair or reasonable but it is just the way it is. Trust me.,

benbo said:

Why would it be meaningless? In the past they would give a score as a total percentage and you could determine how close you came. Now, we only shoot for a total number of correct problems and have no idea what the cut score is other than what people assume to be 56 with no assurance of that being the passing score. There is no reason why they cannot give one a cut score just like they did in the past.

Click to expand...

THey never gave the cut score. Period. I don't know why these myths persist. If you passed they would give you a "70" or above, but you had absolutely no idea what percentage that corresponded with.

Now, they give you percentages if you fail. Even then you don't know what the passing score is. You only know you are below it.

I give up. Believe me or not. It's not fair or reasonable but it is just the way it is. Trust me.,

Click to expand...

So what you are saying that if you would received a 69 on your results and the cut score was 70, then you are telling me that you would have no way of telling how you did. You need to reevaluate your thoughts on tha.

dneva said:

So what you are saying that if you would received a 69 on your results and the cut score was 70, then you are telling me that you would have no way of telling how you did. You need to reevaluate your thoughts on tha.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid you need to re-evaluate your thoughts.

First, most places don't get that score anymore. But even in the old days it was meaningless.

IF you got that 69 (in Texas or Virginia or in the past when they gave them out), how many questions do you think that means you got correct?

If you think you can give me an accurate answer, then I know you know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.

Your diagnostic report can give you some information - you can estimate the percentage you got. But it cannot tell you the cutscore you need to pass. If you think you know the raw cutscore for your exam, please enlighten us. You'll be the first in history.

Is anyone listening to benbo? Please, all of you start from the top of the page and re-read.

Then erase 70, 70%, and cut score from your brains.

You will get "Pass" or "Fail". From the fail results they provide you can get some sort of idea how you did, but you still can not get a "grade" from that, all that you know is you did not get enough correct.

Paul S said:

Is anyone listening to benbo? Please, all of you start from the top of the page and re-read.
Then erase 70, 70%, and cut score from your brains.

You will get "Pass" or "Fail". From the fail results they provide you can get some sort of idea how you did, but you still can not get a "grade" from that, all that you know is you did not get enough correct.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Thanks.

If you can get a bunch of people to post their estimates from the diagnostics you can get some idea of the passing score - at least you can see a bunch of people who didn't pass and look for the highest score and assume it is a little above that. But still just an estimate.

And I suspect 70% or a little lower is a reasonable guess. But it's just a guess.

Listen to yourself. Think. If you score 69 who gives a dam what the score was. You know you are close and need a small push. If you get a percentage from the results, you can only guess what the passing score was. For all you know you could have scored a 56 and the passing score was 60. And for the blogs. Only a few respond with their results. There is no way to tell. With percentages they might as well do what they do here in California with the Seismic and Survey. They no longer give percentages. Explain that.