I searched for a topic on this just because I get very frustrated reading open fourm postings regarding this topic... wondered what you all thought of it... progress versus impact, action versus reaction, EG stirring up trouble....

I think there was a thread in the Shoot the Breeze section.

I'm personally waiting to hear the results of the investigations into how it happened. There are so many backups that are designed to prevent this type of situation, it is just surprising to me that it happened in the first place. I used to work in offshore drilling (services, actually), and I never felt as if we were at risk of a blowout that could not be stopped.

Environmentally, it's a disaster. Politically, it's a disaster for everyone in the oil industry. Just a giant screw up, all around. If there's blame to be placed, it should come down hard.

There was a story on 60 Minutes with an interview with a survivor. He said that the BOP was damaged a couple of weeks prior due to the bit being retracted about 15 feet while the BOP gasket was closed. He said that chunks of rubber from the gasket were floating to the surface. He also said that one of the two redundant control circuits to the BOP was broken several weeks earlier, and never repaired.

Then again, he could have just been saying that to get an interview with 60 Minutes.

Those could possibly explain it. There are multiple BOPs (aka valves), though, so damage to just one wouldn't necessarily prevent closure of the well in an emergency.

Really? The one he was talking about was right where the well came out of the surface and into the water (at least that is what they were showing in the animations to explain what he was talking about). Either way, it was on 60 Minutes so it could be biased against BP, and technically inaccurate.

Interesting, I don't really know much about the functionality or the processes associated with the off shore drilling. Despite the general populations opinion on big oil only interested in profit, I had to think that the industry giants would realize that precautions needed to be taken to prevent something like this from happening (or at least follow any regulations), but with large companies you also usually end up with it taking several weeks to get anything done regarding maintenance... I wonder if that did play a part.

I agree blame should be placed and hope that there is no repeat of the Exxon spill reprecussions. I also think that politically, it's probably a disaster for more then just the oil industry. Regulatory agencies, response agencies and the like will now come under scrutiny for allowing the drilling in the first place, for not having more control, contigincy plans in place, etc. Already, name calling is occuring in Washington.

Enviromentally- I don't even want to think about the impacts yet. I don't get any news on the television, but the last I read, they were still trying to stop the spill, and until that happens, the impacts will continue to grow.

I would like to get my grubby little hands on an EIS and read up on it, but apparently they got exemption... I'm still trying to do a bit of research to see if I can at least find a comparable one and try to find out if there was really an exemption.

Okay, all my reading just raised more questions, isn't that how it goes?

Someone really blew it in this one.Has all the makings of an epic disaster.If the gulf sream catches that baby will push the oil all the way to the mid Atlantic

Like I said, I don't know the details and I haven't seen any of the animations, and nor do I know if they are accurate. But your description sounds strange to me. The BOPs I was talking about are always right at the point where the well breaks the ocean floor, and there are usually several diverent BOPs or "valves" as part of the larger assembly, which on land is usually collectively called a "christmas tree" (maybe the same underwater - I can't remember anymore and I was a service hand anyway, not a driller). As part of the christmas tree are several different types of BOPs. There are "blind rams" that shut the well off if there's nothing else in the way - like drill pipe. There are "pipe rams" which fit around the drill pipe and seal off the well when the drill pipe is in place (but does not seal off the inside of the drill pipe). There are annular BOPs which are similar to pipe rams, but more flexible - i.e. able to squeeze around odd shapes, such as pipe joints or other things like drill collars. And there are also shear rams, which in a major emergency can cut through the drill pipe and seal the well.

And all these separate BOPs are attached securely to several concentric strings of steel pipe or "casing" which are securely cemented into several hundred or thousands of feet of rock, by the time a well reaches the stage at which a blowout occurs.

And on top of all of that, these BOP types are also duplicated at the surface, on the dilling rig itself. And, when people like me would arrive to shoot holes in the casing to unleash the unrestrained well pressure, another, triply-redundant set of BOPs would temporarily be installed at the wellhead.

The few things I have seen in the media are oversimplified. I am really interested to read an analysis of what happened by someone who actually has the facts and knows what they are talking about.

Here's a good photo of a seafloor BOP system with multiple, redundant rams:





That's the interesting thing about private industry. I got to see EVERY major oil company in action, at intimate distance, with the glaring exception of BP. It was amazing to me how different they all were. Some of the biggies were truly amazing, efficient, well-run machines. Things got done instantly, purely on the authority of experienced people in the field who had the authority to make decisions and spend money, no questions asked. I don't want to name names, but I wish I could, because this company was the best. But there were also a few local offices of other big companies that ran similarly smoothly, but other offices of the same company weren't nearly as efficient.

On the other end of the scale was a giant who has since gobbled up many others, and it was run almost as inefficiently as a federal government agency, it's field managers had no authority to take actions, it took weeks to get something decided, etc. They were not the best to work for.

And I also saw everything else in between.

But, like I said, BP was probably the only major that I did not have any experience with, so I have no feel at all for what they are like.

From your description, they only BOP component that was damaged was the annular. It was a rubber ring that sealed around the drill pipe, and when the pipe was retracted while the annular was closed, big chunks of rubber we torn from it. None of the other BOP methods you talk about were mentioned in the interview, so I don't know if they didn't exists, or it was just inconvenient to the story they were trying to tell.

Pure guess here, based on reading y'all's posts and watching the news: I think all the safeguards were overwhelmed by a huge methane release. I *think* the last time that happened off the US was cali in 69. I predict new designs based on this new data will become norm and we won't see another blowout like this for at least another 40 years, probably far more.

Pure speculation, but that's my take on it.

I can't tell from what I've heard. If the annular BOP had been ruined, the other BOPs should have been able to take care of it, as a last resort, the shear rams. But I don't know what was on the subject BOP tree. Probably every single one of them, though, and maybe two of each.

I'm just shooting from the hip, but it doesn't make sense to me.

I've actually heard that the circuitry was damaged and the batteries failed.

A failure in the control system is about the only thing that makes sense to me, other than perhaps just massive amounts of rock or gunk blocking the BOPs from closing. But then again, there ought to be redundancies and fail-safes in the control systems, too, so - back to major screw-up, on someone's part.

Dleg- that picture is very education and totally helped me understand what yall are talking about...


I'm currently waiting for some emails from a co-worker regarding the topic, we have been sifting through the potential environmental impacts at work in our "free time", but the majority of the predictions I've seen are pretty biased and hard to determine how bad they are twisting the truth with statistics and modeling.

If we dont reduce our energy consumption we will have to expect more accidents, at $30/barrel you will take fewer chances and push technology less than at $100/barrel. As energy gets more costly they will take more risk to provide the oil we demand.

I was watching the senate hearing where they were questioning the guy who pushed the button on the BOP, he said everything on the panel looked good but did not see any hydraulic flow. He had two panels but only one kill button, does not seem like there were "seafloor BOP system with multiple, redundant rams:" seems like there should be but he did not try to activate any other systems when he saw no flow. Unless all the systems depended on flow from the surface??

I can definitely see how you draw such a conclusion from one guy that said one sentence about a button he pressed. I mean you have so much information to parse through, electrical and mechanical schematics of the BOP, riser pipe, kill switch (or whatever they are calling it). Oh wait, you don't have that information do you?

What got your panties in a bunch today, Chuck?

I don't know, I'm just tired of every dipshit on the news and the general public thinking they, with no engineering degree or experience in the oil/gas industry, can do a better job than BP or find fault based on what some guy told one of his buddies at a bar. Then our illustrious attorney general is investigating for civil/criminal charges. This whole thing is a bunch of grandstanding by our fuckwad politicians and environmental activists, and to me, the only people that appear to being doing anything other than sitting on their fat asses are BP and their subcontractors, the Coast Guard and other military personel, and volunteers on the Gulf Coast.

Agree. BP has done a heck of a job. LA marshes in jeopardy if not messed up already, 1/3 of the Gulf with an oil slick or, to make this very simple, being responsible for the worst oil spill in history. By the way, is still spewing oil and they had no contingency plan to solve the issue. That is a GREAT freaking job.

And exactly what would you do to improve the situation? Our f-wad president runs around saying things like "we will not rest until these people are made whole", and "BP is not doing anything without White House approval". But no one has come up with any better solution than the engineers at BP from what I can tell.

Unfortunately, this thing is 5000 feet deep, and the contingency plan they had and all of their redundant systems they had failed. I agree mistakes were made, but as Dleg said in another thread, this is partly a consequence of our thirst for oil.

Eleven people did lose their lives the day the rig exploded. There is fault, and possible criminal actions.

Agreed, but the timing indicates that this is political. When have you ever heard the attorney general announce an investigation into criminal wrongdoing? They usually investigate without a big fucking press release, then announce indictments. The justice department is not supposed to be a political tool.

It pains me to write... but I agree with Chucktown *completely* (on this topic ONLY). Everything we're hearing from the White House is about political cover, not effective solution. Anyone who thinks the government should have taken over the recovery operation should be forced to move to Canada! Anyone who is ready to draw conclusions about culpability based on what we know so far is obviously biased. Anyone who thinks BP is half-stepping towards fixing the problem doesn't understand economics or engineering.

This is just the latest example of sensationalism for the benefit of politics.

Holy shit. I'm going to do the happy dance on this one.

Hmm.

That alone should have plugged up the spill. You know, from Hell freezing over.

I agree with Chucktown on this, too. But it is worth pointing out that any politician, probably even Chucktown himself, if he were put in that position, would be out there saying the same things. The alternative is to face the accusations of not reacting, and if there's one thing the public and the media have taught politicians everywhere, it's that any action is better than no action. I'm sure, no, wait, I'm hoping that no one in the administration actually believes the government could be doing a better job at this than BP and the horde of specialized contractors that are on the job now.

Both of you are dead nuts on.

Wow, I've got sraymond, Dleg, and Capt Worley agreeing with me now. I'm running for office dudes.

Wow all that stress over what I saw on TV, I did not imply I knew more I just did not see where the redundant systems were, maybe someone who knows more about deep water drilling could provide some additional information. I dont think personal attacks are warrented in a professional forum such as this, we all have opinions and some have facts, I was just sharing some info. By the way I am a engineer, a professional and have worked in the oil industry.

I wanted to add that the interview with this poor gentleman lastes over an hour with questions from all the operators (BP, Transatlantic, and his company) senators, and many others all wanted to know in depth what happened when he tried to activate the system. He is also the supervisor and stated that he had sole responcibility for the sytem including all electrical, hydraulic and maintance functions.

why do all my topics end up turning into drama?

Eh, some people tend to argue in more confrntational tones than others. I wouldn't take it personally. Your original post was infomrative, but still not much to go on for those of us (all of us?) who have yet to see a complete diagram or description of the BOP system.