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Architects allowed to seal structural dwgs in IL?


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#1 ARLORD

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 08:12 PM

I just read that in Illinois architects are allowed to design and seal structural drawings?
Is this true, and are there any restrictions on what the can design.
Are they required to take any additional structural testing?
I think they should have to take the SE II exam.
Can anyone in Illinois confirm any of this.


#2 Bigwolf

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:16 AM

Rant on.

I can't speak for IL, but I can tell you for a fact that this BS.gif is allowed in California....which I find to be quite funny since they have such strict provisions for the engineers obtaining the CA S.E. license. Typically in CA, you need to have the S.E. to do hospitals or schools (some cities have other restrictions for high rises, etc)....most other projects can be done by a civil engineer. However, the state says that the architectural license is deemed good enough to sign off structural projects that would normally require an S.E.

Furthermore, the architects in the state only take a general structures exam and a lateral forces exam in their quest of licensure.....my wife got her architecture license and the content of these two exams were very basic in principal....yet now she is more qualified to do Structural Engineering than I am according to the geniuses in Sacramento. screwloose.gif screwloose.gif

At the same token....I don't know an architect in CA that would want to take that kind of liability on their shoulders....so even though the laws are screwed up, most architects end up using Structural Engineering Consultants.-->The Architects appears to have more brains than the dumbasses in Sacramento true.gif


Rant off.

#3 kevo_55

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 01:52 PM

BW,

IL arch does have some SE sealing ability.

It is sad but true.

#4 TXengrChickPE

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 03:13 PM

In TX "Engineers shall practice only in their areas of competence". I am hoping that Architects have the same kind of wording in their rules and regulations.

Sure, it's up to the engineer to decide what they are competent to do, but I know that I would not risk my license to stamp something that I don't know anything about.



#5 Bigwolf

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 03:54 PM

QUOTE (kevo_55 @ Nov 14 2008, 05:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BW,

IL arch does have some SE sealing ability.

It is sad but true.



I can't figure out if these laws are a throw back to the old days when Structural Engineering was a more primitive artform....but I'm suprised that the state boards choose not to do anything about it now-especially given how anal (rightfully so) they are about unqualified engineers performing Structural work, let alone architects screwloose.gif

If you can't tell, this topic happens to be one of my biggest professional pet-peeves tongue.gif


#6 ARLORD

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 07:27 PM

QUOTE (Bigwolf @ Nov 14 2008, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't figure out if these laws are a throw back to the old days when Structural Engineering was a more primitive artform....but I'm suprised that the state boards choose not to do anything about it now-especially given how anal (rightfully so) they are about unqualified engineers performing Structural work, let alone architects screwloose.gif

If you can't tell, this topic happens to be one of my biggest professional pet-peeves tongue.gif



It's all about politics. It shows you that the AIA is more powerful than any engineering society.

#7 kevo_55

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 01:21 PM

^^ Another Sad but true fact.

smileyballs.gif

#8 Vinsanity

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 02:48 PM

QUOTE (kevo_55 @ Nov 15 2008, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
^^ Another Sad but true fact.

smileyballs.gif



On the theoretical side of Architecture, because I studied also BS Arch for two years and wasnt able to finish due to financial reasons, anyways, they dont have much idea about in depth Structural Engineering in their curriculum, in my opinion they are not qualified to sign or analyze strucural engineering calcs and drawings. But if the state allows this and something happens on the building, it is incompetence on the architect concerned, each state board (Architects) must have in depth exams like Struct 1 and 2.

Edited by Vinsanity, 15 November 2008 - 02:49 PM.


#9 buening

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 04:31 PM

My boss has an Architecture degree and has an SE license (we are in IL). I think Architects handle some of the structural details, but for the most part either have an in-house SE or hire a structural engineer to do the structural part of the plans. We've done work with Architects and have designed footings and such for different buildings. Not sure on the legality of architects doing structural work, but the firms around here must not feel comfortable doing it!

#10 ARLORD

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (buening @ Dec 19 2008, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My boss has an Architecture degree and has an SE license (we are in IL). I think Architects handle some of the structural details, but for the most part either have an in-house SE or hire a structural engineer to do the structural part of the plans. We've done work with Architects and have designed footings and such for different buildings. Not sure on the legality of architects doing structural work, but the firms around here must not feel comfortable doing it!



I recently found out that SE's in Illinois can seal architectural work and architects can seal structural work. They both have a clause in their Work Acts that states this. There is also a clause in each Act requiring competency in the area that you practice. This actually benefits the SE's being able to do both structural and architectural. Most architects don't want anything to do with structural so they can't benefit from being able to do structural. In my state you need an architect to design a house, but not in IL.

#11 rdbse

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 06:31 PM

I have not found an Illinois architect who will stamp structural drawings even though they can do so legally. Most realize the limits of their expertise.

I believe the law might have something to do with the architecture program at the University of Illinois. They offer a masters degree in architecture with an emphasis in structures.
The course work is basically equivalent to a masters in structural engineer.

This is also probably a throwback to architecture programs in the past that allowed crossing into the engineering discipline.


#12 ARLORD

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE (rdbse @ Dec 19 2008, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have not found an Illinois architect who will stamp structural drawings even though they can do so legally. Most realize the limits of their expertise.

I believe the law might have something to do with the architecture program at the University of Illinois. They offer a masters degree in architecture with an emphasis in structures.
The course work is basically equivalent to a masters in structural engineer.

This is also probably a throwback to architecture programs in the past that allowed crossing into the engineering discipline.


Both Work Acts, Architectural and Structural we initiated prior to the early 1900's. The structural Work Act was modeled after the architectural Work Act


#13 IlliniASU

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 05:58 PM

rdbse is correct about the program at Illinois. I am a graduate of that program. It is a unique program, and I'm pretty certain there aren't many like it in the country, if any at all.

If you do some digging, to be a qualified candidate to sit for the IL SE exams, you must have an engineering or architecture degree from an approved program with a minimum of 18 credit hours of structural engineering related coursework, including analysis, behavior and design.

The undergraduate architecture program at Illinois is also unique in that students are required to take calculus, statics, dynamics, mechanics of materials, steel and concrete design courses. I have spoken with students who are graduates of other architecture programs and they are not required to take anything beyond college algebra. That to me is astounding.

After I graduated, I moved to Arizona and found that not many people trust engineering design to an "architect" (go figure). Even though I just passed the PE (yay!) I am still pursuing the BSCE part-time and will hopefully be finished in the next three years, taking one or two classes at a time. Next step: the SE exams!

But don't worry... not just anyone can stamp structural drawings or sit for the SE exams. It's a very small group of architectural people. My class only had 15. smile.gif




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