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#1 passpepasspe

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:58 PM

I am stuyding from Reza and a Mansour book and was wondering if someone can help clarify whether a CE can restablish the elevation of a benchmark ?

Mansour in the chapter 1 pracice problem # 10 says you can not restablish the elevation of a benchmark
Reza in chapter 1 practice problem number 12, says you can restablish the elevation of a benchmark.

referring to post 1982 registered CE.

thanks.

#2 EnvEngineer

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 08:17 PM

The confusion is in the term benchmark, you cannot establish or otherwise change a benchmark that is registered, however, the term is also used for temporary benchmarks especially for elevations, in which case you can. For example you may set a elevation benchmark on a site from which to reference the elevations of structures on the site. But these are not registered. I believe when they refer to elevation (Reza) you can do it, if they dont refer to elevation (Mansour) you cannot.

#3 ptatohed

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:49 AM

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but: It's my understanding that the types of surveys an RCE can't due (requires a PLS) are Boundary Surveys (Property Line Surveys, Cadastral Surveys, ALTA Surveys) and Geodetic Surveys (measures the shape of the earth). This leaves many surveys that an RCE can do including: Plane Surveying, Zoned Surveys, Control Surveys, Aerial/Photogrammetric Surveys, Final/As-Built Surveys, Pre-Engineering Surveys, etc. Control Surveys (X,Y control = Monuments and Z control = BMs) would fall under the type of survey you ask about. Again, it is my understanding that RCEs can perform Control Surveys and thus establish/reestablish BMs.

#4 KHPE

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE (ptatohed @ Oct 6 2011, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but: It's my understanding that the types of surveys an RCE can't due (requires a PLS) are Boundary Surveys (Property Line Surveys, Cadastral Surveys, ALTA Surveys) and Geodetic Surveys (measures the shape of the earth). This leaves many surveys that an RCE can do including: Plane Surveying, Zoned Surveys, Control Surveys, Aerial/Photogrammetric Surveys, Final/As-Built Surveys, Pre-Engineering Surveys, etc. Control Surveys (X,Y control = Monuments and Z control = BMs) would fall under the type of survey you ask about. Again, it is my understanding that RCEs can perform Control Surveys and thus establish/reestablish BMs.

ptatohed RCE's cannot perform control surveys and benchmark surveys. Only they can perform temporary BM surveys. Control Surveys, Geodetic Surveys, and BMs are established by LS.

#5 darius

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 06:42 PM

Does anyone has a accurate list with all kind of surveys a civil engineer can do and when a land surveyor is required?
I think would be very useful for many reading this forum
Thanks

#6 ptatohed

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 11:01 PM

Does anyone has a accurate list with all kind of surveys a civil engineer can do and when a land surveyor is required?
I think would be very useful for many reading this forum
Thanks



I already passed Survey but I can attest that this is a great idea and would be very valuable. I have a list that I used but I hesitate to post it here because KH already corrected my list. Good luck guys.

#7 darius

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Posted 19 October 2011 - 05:17 PM


Does anyone has a accurate list with all kind of surveys a civil engineer can do and when a land surveyor is required?
I think would be very useful for many reading this forum
Thanks



I already passed Survey but I can attest that this is a great idea and would be very valuable. I have a list that I used but I hesitate to post it here because KH already corrected my list. Good luck guys.

Can you please post it...Even if there are few mistakes will be still helpfull
Thanks in advance

#8 LakersFreak

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:02 PM



Does anyone has a accurate list with all kind of surveys a civil engineer can do and when a land surveyor is required?
I think would be very useful for many reading this forum
Thanks



I already passed Survey but I can attest that this is a great idea and would be very valuable. I have a list that I used but I hesitate to post it here because KH already corrected my list. Good luck guys.

Can you please post it...Even if there are few mistakes will be still helpfull
Thanks in advance


I agree this would be very very useful!!! Please someone help. I have found some and will post as soon as I get home.

#9 simpatique

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:58 AM

RCE after 1982 cannot restablish benchmarks

#10 ptatohed

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:24 AM

Guys, this might be helpful. See page 11 of this PDF: http://www.pels.ca.g...sumer_guide.pdf It lists many services that PLS's can perform and also indicates which of those (few) services can be performed by an RCE.

P.S. So, does this ("locate, relocate, establish, reestablish, or retrace the alignment or elevation for any of the fixed works embraced within the practice of civil engineering") mean that an RCE can reestablish the elevation of a BM? It appears that an RCE can do most surveys as long as it does not include the determination of boundaries or photo/aerial mapping.

#11 EnvEngineer

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

No a RCE cannot establish the elevation of a benchmark,

("locate, relocate, establish, reestablish, or retrace the alignment or elevation for any of the fixed works embraced within the practice of civil engineering")

this is within the site boundries such as building corners, elevations and such.. If you were referencing from a BM and it was damaged you would need to be a land surveyer to reestablish that BM.

#12 Jayman_PE

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

Folks,

The question of discerning the line between a PLS and PE is governed by state. I'm assuming the OP is preparing for the CA board exam. I would suggest contacting the board directly and seeing what licensing statutes, or rules, if any, they can direct you toward. I am a PLS in 5 states (but not CA) and the general rule is a PE can set a temporary benchmark, but not a perpetual one that could later be used by another to establish vertical control. For example, suppose the question asks you who can set a HARN/HPGN (i.e. High Accuracy Reference Network/High Precision Geodetic Network) control point (whether benchmark or horizontal control), the answer is unequivocally a PLS because of the care, knowledge and repsonsibility required establish such precision. Make sense?

#13 ptatohed

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:55 PM

Folks,

The question of discerning the line between a PLS and PE is governed by state. I'm assuming the OP is preparing for the CA board exam. I would suggest contacting the board directly and seeing what licensing statutes, or rules, if any, they can direct you toward. I am a PLS in 5 states (but not CA) and the general rule is a PE can set a temporary benchmark, but not a perpetual one that could later be used by another to establish vertical control. For example, suppose the question asks you who can set a HARN/HPGN (i.e. High Accuracy Reference Network/High Precision Geodetic Network) control point (whether benchmark or horizontal control), the answer is unequivocally a PLS because of the care, knowledge and repsonsibility required establish such precision. Make sense?


Jason, you are a PLS? You are the frickin' man! That is so rad. I would love to get my PLS and be dually licensed. I just don't think I'll ever get the one year of full time field experience to even fill out the application.




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