9 replies to this topic

[bkeefer01]

I work for an MEP firm (provides services for a variety of architectural projects) and I am hoping to take the PE exam in April 2012 in order to improve my standing in the company. I currently work as an electrical engineer, but I studied Architectural engineering in university so I seem to have a fair shot at passing both types of PE exam. At first glance, the Electrical PE is the most logical choice due to the relevancy to my job....

...however, I'm curious, what are the advantages to getting an Architectural PE, if any? I understand that I would get the same PE stamp with the AE PE as with the EE PE, but I heard that there are some jurisdictions that specifically require an EE PE to stamp electrical drawings, i.e. DC.

Any opinions of the career net worth of each type of PE would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Any thoughts?

[gte621n]

I also work for an MEP firm and work as an Electrical Engineer. My undegraduate degree is in Aerospace Engineering and I also have work experience doing Mechanical and Plumbing design. I decided that the best option for me was the Architectural PE exam rather than the EE - Power exam. The Architectural PE Exam seems seems to be right on par with what most MEP firms deal with on a regular basis except for the Structural portion of the exam, which is 25% of the exam. I don't have any real-world working Structural experience but I took plenty of Structural courses in college to feel like it could sit for the exam. I passed the Architectural PE Exam last spring. In the end, I think you have to decide which one is right for you. I'd suggest buying the NCEES EE - Power practice test and the AEI Architectural Engineering practice test and flip through them to see which test you feel is right for you. In Ohio, there is no distinction between PE stamps so I wasn't worried about being able to sign drawings. I think that the Architectural PE Exam is still fairly new to the engineering community, but I see it growing more and more popular in the near future. The AEI website shows that 49 states and Puerto Rico accept the Architectural PE Exam, the only one that currently does not is Vermont. (http://content.aeins.../map-state2.jpg)

I am pretty confident that it doesn't matter which exam you take, the Architectural or Electrical PE exam, your career will be given a boost but ultimately it will reflect how good of an engineer you really are, not the letters after your name.

Good luck with taking the exam.

[bkeefer01]

Thanks, I will definitely buy both practice exams for comparison. Can I ask what study books you used to take the test?

I am just curious though if anyone has any experience with an employer preferring one type of PE over the other. Does anyone have any good and bad experiences that would provide some clarity? In addition to Vermont, I heard that DC requires an electrical stamp. Are other states potentially heading this direction??

[Nickarus]

Thanks, I will definitely buy both practice exams for comparison. Can I ask what study books you used to take the test?

I am just curious though if anyone has any experience with an employer preferring one type of PE over the other. Does anyone have any good and bad experiences that would provide some clarity? In addition to Vermont, I heard that DC requires an electrical stamp. Are other states potentially heading this direction??

There are a number of 'discipline-specific' states incl. CA/NV/ID... - I think you can tell reliably by whether the seal says something generic like "professional engineer" or specific like "electrical."

In practice, my work before and after the exam is about 50/50 mechanical/electrical, and for smaller projects I'll often cover all disciplines, so the AE PE made a lot of sense from a "what I do" standpoint. That said, I had the same concerns regarding inter-state licensure. While some states are 'discipline specific (CA/NV/ID... etc),' I don't think they will all necessarily have a problem with the AE stamp. I believe the bigger issue is whether the state recognizes the AE P.E. exam at all... there's a link to a map showing who doesn't on the AEI website - I'm not sure whether it's kept current: http://www.aeinstitu...ing/pe_exam.cfm

I'd encourage you to get your employer's opinion on the matter if they have one - in the immediate term their input might have a reasonable impact on your decision. My employer emphatically told me from the company's perspective, "a PE is a PE is a PE." Considering most states do recognize the AE PE now (see map in above link), and that list logically should grow in time so long as the body of AE Professionals grows and develops a larger voice, the only reason someone with appropriate experience/background would want to shy away is if they're going to be required to stamp drawings in states that aren't recognizing the seal.

You might inquire ahead and find that you won't be required/expected to seal drawings for some time... office politics may make it something of a non-issue for you as well.

If you pursue the AE exam - I have another post around here somewhere detailing my references... I need to finish that writeup but a good portion of it is there.

Edited by Nickarus, 12 September 2011 - 06:19 PM.

[DaveW]

huh....first I've ever heard of a Architectural Engineering PE. Tried reading about it online, but I can't figure out what they do exactly.

[Nickarus]

huh....first I've ever heard of a Architectural Engineering PE. Tried reading about it online, but I can't figure out what they do exactly.

I can't answer for everybody's job description or motivations, but I can share my personal perspective/thoughts: AE PE's are generally individuals who are (A) working somewhere in the building construction industry and ( who are to some extent "cross-discipline" in practice.

The AE PE exam is unique in that each question is specific/applicable to engineering within the commercial building/construction industry.

Our engineering design and skillsets are not limited to any single discipline. I can run loads, size HVAC/plumbing equipment, pipe/duct everything up, select and lay out lighting fixtures power/telecomm outlets, draw up risers and control schematics for all trades, and assemble the specs. I'm versed in NEC, common building codes, energy and ventilation standards, and so forth. That said, I do not touch structural with a 39.5ft pole, except on rare occasions where a quick reference to my steel manual can provide general guidance.

In practice, I will cover all MEP trades for smaller projects, but will commonly split the work with one or more other designers for larger/complex projects. For example, I'll take on the role of "the electrical" a given project and focus on that piece of the pie, allowing me to devote more time and attention to afford a more complex design. The trades I pick up for any given project varies with the individual(s) I'm working with and what holes need to be filled.

An AE PE is likely NOT designing utility power plants or chiller internals. We're not sealing drawings for a suspension bridge. There are projects in the broader building/construction industry that do require a specialist, and it's on us (as with every PE) to follow the NSPE code of ethics and only seal/sign items falling under our area of competence.

Our cross-discipline background definitely helps us in certain aspects including energy modeling, project management, CA, and design coordination meetings.

I recall from my job-hunt years ago that some employers actually discourage cross-discipline experience/practice in all or part of their workforce ("you're either mechanical OR electrical"). I suppose in such an environment/culture you'd have an uphill battle to pursue or even consider a multi-discipline license. If you reside or do most of your work in one of the states who doesn't yet recognize the AE PE, I could see that turning you away as well.

I don't have the life-experience yet to know how everything might turn out, but I anticipate my past and on-going cross-discipline CA/project management experience one day will not hurt my chances at climbing to an upper management role.

Again, this is just one young PE's view of the situation. I'm certain individual experiences and circumstances drive others to pursue the AE PE (or not), but for me it seems the best fit as it's the exam whose contents most closely match my actual areas of competence and practice, in addition to my future career goals. I live & work in a state which recognizes the AE PE, which I suppose helps from a marketing perspective, but I continue to design for projects all over the country in states who do and don't recognize the AE PE (in which case an ME and/or EE in our office can review and seal my work).

As an aside: I've noted through wikipedia that the term "Architectural engineering" means very different things as you cross borders into other countries - I gather building engineering of all disciplines and general architecture practice can be one and the same thing in Japan, for example.

[DaveW]

Sounds like a move for architecture go back to Master Builder Status. In hindsight it also looks like a Jack of all trades role. Is it possible to have expertise in all fields?

I have a degree in architecture, and have been getting experience at it, but I've also been doing alot of what you describe the past 3 years. Some of it in an Engineering firm setting, and most of it on a military installation setting.

I never knew it could be considered architectural engineering.

While at the same time, I'm learning and studying how contracts work, meeting with contractors, negotiating pricing, determining risks, understanding how bonding, substantial completion, final completion, project closeout, time frames for deliverable, cost estimating, and on and on. I'm taking the A.R.E. as we speak.

Interestingly, I took on my current job, thinking it was an architect position, when in fact it's an architectural engineering position. So now I know thanks to this board. Very few architects out there that I meet have a technical background.

At the same time, I do have to argue that the engineers do have a tendency to make things look horrific. I guess that's why army bases have a bad reputation - they've been planned and designed by engineers for way too long.

[mytony]

I have not enough time to prepare for my examine. so i have to squeeze time to study.

[alora]

huh....first I've ever heard of a Architectural Engineering PE. Tried reading about it online, but I can't figure out what they do exactly.

Double-check your state's statutes and/or rules.

Arizona has a specific definition for what Architectural Engineering entails.

I am also attempting to get my AE PE license, and it seems to be relatively easy since I'm already an architect. Someone at the state board mentioned that architects typically get involved in all disciplines. Not that that is the prerequisite, but since AE PE is still relatively new, they're reviewing everyone's qualifications on a case-by-case basis.

Especially with those individuals who have no college experience.

[alora]

Sounds like a move for architecture go back to Master Builder Status. ...

Bingo.

Next up after AE PE is my GC license.