Please take the time to teach your EIs how to be a PE. How to work and function in the real world.
rlyflag:
In the new job I just started, one of the reasons I was hired was to serve as a mentor to the engineering graduates. In fact, I had a 3-month performance evaulation today, and this was one aspect my supervisor covered because he likes the fact that I have 'real world' experience dealing with a wide range of issues from differing perspectives. It makes me chuckle just a tad because I don't see my insights as 'special' but when you have gained so much knowledge by virtue of rolling up your sleeves and digging in, you tend to take things for granted. I would humbly submit that part of the problem is a matter of ... casual acquaintence with the subject matter. I am not saying it is all of the problem or even a large part of it ... but investigate how much of it is the problem.
I'm posting this because I'm just fed up. I've worked at two companies and at both the PEs are barely ever in the office and even when they are they do not stop to teach or guide their EIs.
Depending on the circumstances, that is just the way it is. I was just asked this week to be the project engineer for a $500k+ project because of the lack of PEs available. I just didn't have the time to commit to that project, so I had to politely decline. Things happen and you have to learn to put yourself in a position to learn .. best way to do that is to demonstrate that you can be helpful.
At my university we were not taught nitty gritty details of specs, how to contact local authorities and obtain information, what the order of submittals to various agencies are to obtain project approvals, how to handle conflict in meetings, or even how to do design in real life situations.
School is to teach you the process for solving problems and some basic mechanics behind the problems you will be called upon to address. It is not to teach you how to conduct yourself - that is for *YOU* to do.
Having said that, part of the philosophy of this forum is to provide an interactive place for professionals to come together to discuss such things because there isn't a 'How To' book - just collective experiences.
I'm at a real low with all of this today because I left my previous company for failing to teach me design or much of anything. When I interviewed with my present company I was very specific in asking about what my day to day job would be like and what kind of training they offer. I was told that they are continually sending their employees for training and that it was a high priority for them. I was told I would get to work very closely on a day to day basis with the PE who was to be my boss. No one has been to any training in the year plus I've been here, with the exception of a one day training course taught by MDOT about the changes in one specific manual. The only time I see my boss is if I sit in the front office for hours waiting for him to show up, or the one minute hihowyadoing he does every morning as he runs through the office. I am tired of feeling stupid all day, when I know I am not. If I knew how to teach myself I would. So please, to all the PEs.
Every employer has good intentions for providing the type of training you asked about but you will find the first things that get tossed when money gets tight is training. Recommendation: Bring this up often, especially if it is pertinent to any projects you are working on and you can bring value-added to the project/employer by having training.
One of the traits in life that I have learned works well: repetition.
When you hire an EI to work under you, you are taking on the responsibility of teaching and guiding them into being a successful PE, make sure you live up to your end of the bargain.
Hmmm ... mebbe, mebbe not. Don't take this the wrong way but I think there is more responsibility on the EI to find a suitable mentor. That may or may not be the PE that you end up working under. Having a license only means that person has demonstrated minimal competency to be an engineer - it doesn't mean that they have the qualities or personality for being a mentor.
I realize now that in my first 2 years out of school that I knew absolutely nothing. I was laid off in my 3rd year which empowered me to study like crazy for the structural exams. I knew it would be tough, and I'm still working on it. I'm about to know whether I passed the SE II after taking two years off from getting my PE. What I realized is that I needed to take personal responsibility for my knowledge. No one was going to "force" me to learn anything. I really wish that I could've learned that in my first two years, but I was a dummy. I thought I could show up and get paid. I never questioned whether I earned it or not. I was a lot like the typical naive recent graduate who thought that I was entitled to more pay and always questioned authority indirectly. Bad attitude and bad decision.
I'm sure you're wiser than I was. I just want you to encourage you in this... most places aren't going to train you as much as you'd like. Engineers aren't the most enlightened individuals in the softer skill sets. Just remember to NOT be like your supervisors and pay it forward. Someday, it will reap a harvest for what you sow. After much learning the hard way, I believe true success is measured by how much you give to your surroundings than what you take.
McEngr,
Very good points all the way around!
But I do strive to learn on my own. I read contract documents and specs when I have nothing to do. I try to learn as much as I can on my own, but it doesn't compare to the learning I should be receiving from my PE supervisors. I had a great PE supervisor for 6 months and am very well aware of the difference one can make.
That's a fair statement but you can't expect every PE supervisor (or even most of them) to meet that level of expectation.
Just last week one of the supervisors here had pulled two of us into his office to go over an assignment. I asked some questions, and he said, "this isn't an easy assignment to do and I'm not really sure how to do it myself. If it were easy and I could do it on my own I wouldn't have called you guys in here to do it." He said it jokingly, but it really struck home for me. Why not pass down the assignments he considers easy. This way he can teach and supervise us on how to do it, and we would get to learn.
As for learning on my own, there are some things you can't learn sitting in an office. My good supervisor would take me to most meetings with him and out when he did field engineering. I learned so much from him and really regret leaving now, but when I left the company I thought he was right on my tails with leaving. But after I left, the company freaked out and realized every one was jumping ship and gave him a huge raise to stay. Going to meetings with him was great because from observation I learned what to say and how to behave in a meeting. I learned that phrasing things in different ways and different lights will get different results. He also taught me a lot about policies in my particular state. I've tried reading some of the rules and regs from the various agencies like the Public Service Commission, but with no one to ask questions, it's hard to grasp on my own.
My first engineering job out of college was working for FEMA - I worked in the Public Assistance program where I was basically responsible for scoping disaster damage to public infrastructure and costing it out in the form of a grant. Absolutely NO guidance or mentorship - I was literally handed a badge, a stack of forms, and the keys to a vehicle and told me to hit it. :true: The job sucked from a training perspective because I wasn't getting much mentorship but it was truly a rewarding experience to get out there and help people recover from some of the worst experiences in their life. It was a balancing act that I left after almost two years because I wanted to get back into environmental engineering, hydrogeology, and remediation (my education).
My supervisor for the first 8 yrs at the agency was awesome. He was a former Army Corps of Engineers officer; he retired from working at one of the experimental stations. The way that he mentored me was to let me go out there and do it myself ... if I seemd to be going wayward he would offer advice. He never sat down to tell me .. this is how you do it. My 2nd supervisor was a PhD, P.E. - a very nice guy but didn't know anything about the program. I knew I wasn't going anywhere and didn't like being a regulator, so I switched jobs.
My current supervisor is very knowledgable but wants me to be the guy on the ground taking care of things. He expects me to take charge and get things done - I am not supposed to wait for him to answer things; I need to charge forward and make things happen. Sometimes, it means I make mistakes but that is what working is about - that just sometimes happens. Overall, he is satisfied with what I am doing - as was discussed in my initial review.
So .... what does all this rambling mean?
1. You need to decide what you want from a job - create a hierarchy of needs and wants. Then based on that criteria, see if you are satisified with the current job.
2. Look for opportunities to get placed in a mentoring situation - typically PE's aren't going to set the stage for it. You will need to actively look for those situations.
3. Don't rely solely upon your supervisor or other project leaders for mentorship. Look for other knowledgeable resources within your company. Look for those resources outside of your company as well - some of the biggest sources of mentorship came from outside of my agency when working on field assignments.
4. Don't get discouraged. Developing your professional background takes time and required the opportunity for such development. Keep your eye on the long-term goals and don't get frustrated with short-term disappointments.
5. Always try to frame any training opportunity that you would like the company to sponsor in terms of how that training will benefit the company. Companies are not going to want to sponsor training just to make you happy.
I hope you will find some of these responses helpful and perhaps direct some of your approach/thinking.
JR
