Well, this is confusing

Anyone read this in the "Enforcement beat" section of the NCEES newsletter:

If you plan-stamp, be paid really well for it. Attorneys can be very
expensive when they defend you in a hearing before the board.
This is one of those infractions that demean the profession.
Anyone supplementing their income in this manner is gambling
with their license.
What the heck does that mean?  Are they suggesting that being paid well to plan-stamp is a violation of the rules????

No, they are saying that you are going to lose your license if you plan-stamp, so you better make it worth your while.  In other words, make enough money off plan stamping that you can afford to lose your license.

Are they referring to "side work"?  I know I am known for having pour engrish (around here) but that's poorly worded IMO

NCEES gets worked up over everything, I doubt many of their staff have worked much in the "real world"..  If you read through the minutes of your state board you will see they (state boards) are pretty much paper tigers and hand out lots of slaps on the wrists.. and even calling them slaps on the wrists is a little too harsh..

Why would they have any articles that's relate to enforcement of anything beyond the exam? Last time I recall their responsibility ends when they establish the cut score (of 53)....

Interesting. And what would be the NCEES definition of "plan stamping". I do engineering consulting on the side in addition to my full-time job so would that be considered "plan stamping" when I stamp electrical drawings?

wilheldp_PE said:

No, they are saying that you are going to lose your license if you plan-stamp, so you better make it worth your while.  In other words, make enough money off plan stamping that you can afford to lose your license.

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Maybe I don't understand what plan-stamping is.

here is an example:

I just started alphabetically with Alabama..

http://www.bels.alabama.gov/pdf/meetings/Minutes August 11, 2016.pdf

Looks like there were 2 cases - maybe they were related because they both involve a metal building? carport)

it appears they levied a fine against a construcrion company of $5,00 (LOL I assume they meant $5,000- hope that was in the consent order)

but an individual either caught stamping something he did review or something that missed a state standard gets a "reprimand" and a $225 fine.. & most likely this one case only came up due to some nepotism.. I mean the entire state of Alabama and only 2 "cases" ?

knight1fox3 said:

Interesting. And what would be the NCEES definition of "plan stamping". I do engineering consulting on the side in addition to my full-time job so would that be considered "plan stamping" when I stamp electrical drawings?

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I do consulting work on the side as well.  Have yet to stamp any drawings or plans, but I offer engineering services.  Of course, I wouldn't stamp plans someone else drew up, unless I oversaw the work and/or checked it myself.

So In reading the article they copied an article form an actual state board (typical NCEES)

from the beginning of the article:

Other violations can be more serious, such as filing an inaccurate renewal application, plan-stamping, incompetent practice, bidding work, supplanting another licensee, and dishonest or fraudulent activity.

I am guessing that plan-stamping refers to selling your stamp for work you haven't done or reviewed?

Audi driver said:

I do consulting work on the side as well.  Have yet to stamp any drawings or plans, but I offer engineering services.  Of course, I wouldn't stamp plans someone else drew up, unless I oversaw the work and/or checked it myself.

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For me, the electrical portion is part of a drawing/construction package. But I only stamp the portions I directly worked on. Are they possibly talking about this as it relates to civil/structural plans?

knight1fox3 said:

For me, the electrical portion is part of a drawing/construction package. But I only stamp the portions I directly worked on. Are they possibly talking about this as it relates to civil/structural plans?

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No idea... thus "well, this is confusing".  :laugh:

I think RG is right. Be smart and ethical when it comes to utilizing your stamp. Don't just let someone apply it to a plan set that you only know partially. And obviously only stamp the things within your competency. 

Road Guy said:

So In reading the article they copied an article form an actual state board (typical NCEES)

from the beginning of the article:

Other violations can be more serious, such as filing an inaccurate renewal application, plan-stamping, incompetent practice, bidding work, supplanting another licensee, and dishonest or fraudulent activity.

I am guessing that plan-stamping refers to selling your stamp for work you haven't done or reviewed?

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Likewise with "bidding work".  WTH??  Seems they need an editor.

yeah I don't get that one either, people in our profession bid (provide prices for proposals) engineering work all the time....

knight1fox3 said:

Audi driver said:

Just now, Audi driver, P.E. said: I do consulting work on the side as well.  Have yet to stamp any drawings or plans, but I offer engineering services.  Of course, I wouldn't stamp plans someone else drew up, unless I oversaw the work and/or checked it myself.

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For me, the electrical portion is part of a drawing/construction package. But I only stamp the portions I directly worked on. Are they possibly talking about this as it relates to civil/structural plans?

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That's why it's wise to have a structural and an electrical pe.

Plan stamping is when a client brings plans for a Captain D's they did in Texas, want to build one just like it in TN and need you to stamp what someone else designed/drew so they can start construction.  We get asked all the time to give a price to stamp some drawings like that.  I always tell them I will be glad to give them a price, but will have to design it from the ground up myself. 

Plan stamping happens a lot when people are trying to keep the budget down on a commercial building.  They'll get Joe Bob down the street to design the building, then pay a flat fee to an engineer to put his stamp on it so that they can get permits.  The engineer doesn't review the work, it's not done under their supervision, and the building may or may not be safe as designed.  It is against the law (at least in Kentucky), and you are subject to a $1000+ fine and up to 5 years in jail if found guilty.  At a minimum, you lose your license.

^ ah yes. I won't be doing that anytime soon. No matter how high the fee is.

Audi driver said:

Likewise with "bidding work".  WTH??  Seems they need an editor.

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Thank God the PE exam doesn't have an essay portion. I don't what would be more difficult to read, engineer-written essays or NCEES-written prompts.

knight1fox3 said:

^ ah yes. I won't be doing that anytime soon. No matter how high the fee is.

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They can ask, and I will be happy to review the work for a fee and then tell them I can't put my stamp on it. :laugh: