Changes in Application Process In 2017 in California

Please read the link regarding new application process in California affected December, 2016. The contents of this new application process are if you obtained your FE or EIT you be able to take the National examination without waiting for the 4 years experiences. The only required is to passed the FE exam. After passing both exams, FE and National (Ncees), obtaining the required experiences, and other requirements you be able to apply for the licensure in the state of California. My concerns are what happened to the candidates who already submitted their applications and still taking the National exam and California specific exams? 

http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/application_process_changes_091216.pdf

Any comments on these changes?

The document at the link you provided does state "Please watch for more detailed information to be posted on the Board's website sometime after the Fall 2016 exam administration."  So, I'm thinking that if you are referring to the people that are sitting for the Fall exams, it doesn't apply to them at this time.  Maybe you should just wait for more information as the posting says you should.

Ric, is there any talk about BPELSG applying this "test first , experience later" approach to the PS Exam? 

ptatohed said:

Ric, is there any talk about BPELSG applying this "test first , experience later" approach to the PS Exam? 

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Yes.  The PS exam is the first professional-level national exam that NCEES is moving towards CBT and continuous delivery.  The PE exams will likely follow suit over the next 4-5 years beginning in 2018 as NCEES converts those over.  I'll be speaking at the Cal Poly Pomona Geomatics Conference Friday of this week (10/07) specifically on the upcoming changes if want to attend.  And CLSA will be hosting a webinar on this Oct 12 too.

Yes, lets wait after the October exam finished. But taking the PE exam without 4 years required experiences would that decreasing the passing rate? I have taken the PE Civil exam and depth or the afternoon section is not that easy. 

Irap said:

Yes, lets wait after the October exam finished. But taking the PE exam without 4 years required experiences would that decreasing the passing rate? I have taken the PE Civil exam and depth or the afternoon section is not that easy. 

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NCEES has published passing rates that show the passing rate tends to increase with increased experience.  But that doesn't mean you can't pass with less experience. 

Very true. Its passible without the required experiences. But I think the reason the boards are allowing this its because there are alot of EITs out there who are not qualified to take PE exam and will benefit those candidates. Also, it will also increase the number of candidates and seats in exam room and thats economics part of this. I realized the last time i took the exam, less candidates are in the exam room. I guest both sides will benefit from these changes.

The change is now favored for people who haven't got required 2 years experience yet because now they can attempt 8 hours test, pass and put it under their belt. When 2 years time comes, they just have to deal with 2 CA exams. Overall, a lot easier and faster to get license for future PE exam takers.

ptatohed said:

NCEES has published passing rates that show the passing rate tends to increase with increased experience.  But that doesn't mean you can't pass with less experience. 

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Correlation is not causation. It could be those with more experience value their time more thus study more. They may also recognize their own weaknesses and study harder (maturity). 

cupojoe PE PMP said:

Correlation is not causation. It could be those with more experience value their time more thus study more. They may also recognize their own weaknesses and study harder (maturity). 

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Very true.  I took studying for the PE exam at 35 way more seriously than I took college at 25.  And it was due to age and maturity, not engineering experience. 

Anyone from California heard any update news about these changes? I want to know if those candidates who have already applied and have not pass all the exams are required to resubmit a new application once they passed the required exams. I just hope its only for the new applicants after 2016. Thanks

Irap said:

Anyone from California heard any update news about these changes? I want to know if those candidates who have already applied and have not pass all the exams are required to resubmit a new application once they passed the required exams. I just hope its only for the new applicants after 2016. Thanks

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The way I read it, there's no change that you should worry about requiring resubmitting an application. There's a difference if you're applying after December 12, 2016 which means you're applying for Fall 2017 since the deadline for Spring 2017 has already passed. In addition, if someone didn't pass their 8hr exam this passed October, and they want to take the exam again in April 2017, then they don't have to send in a re-file for the 8hr to the board first. They can just register with NCEES. So, just for the 8hr, the application is no longer going through CA Board. But if you have a Seismic or a Survey exam to retake then you have to send them the re-file application for Spring 2017 or a new application if you're taking those two for the first time in the Fall 2017. Otherwise, if you're taking 8hr for the first time or once again, then you just deal with NCEES.

What's the worry? Am I reading this wrong? I'm sure the re-file application for Spring 2017 and beyond will be updated to take out NCEES' 8hr test off of it. Essentially, it sounds like they're letting NCEES deal with the test and payment portion of the application and CA is dealing with the application and the payment for their two state exams.

The state hasn't sent me any info about having to send them another application when I was going to take the Seismic and Survey last week. If I don't pass this time again, I'm sure they'll just send a re-file form that has the NCEES removed. 

Actually, I just confirmed my suspicion. See the re-file application here: http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/re-examination_form.pdf

It doesn't include the NCEES 8hr exam. Whereas the one I got last year did include NCEES (couldn't attach).

In addition, the application for new applicants only asks that someone indicates if they passed the NCEES 8hr exam as seen here: http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/pubs/forms/ceapp.pdf

So yeah.... essentially, they're separating the two and letting the application plus payment to NCEES happen at NCEES. And they handle the initial application along with the state exams as well as refiles for state exams only.

I think I understand the confusion though. The question is, since say you and I already applied and took all three tests and pass this fall, do we re-submit an application. From what they're saying, the answer is no. I don't see why we would send them the same application again to say that we are done taking the tests. But come December you find out that you don't have the 8hr, then you can take the test again without telling them anything and just deal with NCEES. But then when you pass it, you have to send them that refile. In my case, if I find out that I don't have the other 2 tests, and wanted to take them again (which I won't), then I'd have to send them an application before. Essentially you're just sending them the refile afterwards instead of before the 8hr test and for the other 2, you're still sending them the application beforehand.

The way i understand is we can take 8 hours NCEES Exam in April 2017 without applying to CA Board and having 2 years experience. On NCEES website, the registration opens on December 12th.

" there will be changes to the application and examination process coinciding with the opening of NCEES's examination management system scheduled for December 12, 2016. After that date, licensure candidates in California will be able to register at NCEES for the national exam required for their intended discipline without having to apply to the Board first." 

^ There.

Hello everyone. I submitted my CA PE Application a few month ago, in late September. The check is cashed. However, I have two concerns:

1- I haven't got any sort of communication form the board regarding receive or approval of my application as of today (Dec 19). (Yes, I had provided 2 self addressed envelopes with my application). I have called 3 times to check the status, and am told that my name is not even in the computer yet, and that they have got too many applications, etc. 

2- My friend got a letter stating that his application was reviewed and approved, and the his letter also says:

"please be advised that beginning with April 2017 exam, CA has a new licensing process as follows: 1. Engineer passes FE exam, 2. Engineer passed the PE exam (NCEES exam), 3. Engineer applies to BPELSG for license approval, once approved, 4. Engineer takes CA exams (seismic, survey). 5. Engineer is licensed after all CA requirements (exams, fingerprinting, etc.) are fulfilled."

So now my other concern is to study for 3 exams and get the same letter that I should wait to pass the NCEES exam first before I can take seismic/survey. Has anyone get any PE application approval  from the board in email or mail? Thanks. :thankyou:

robert.easylife said:

Hello everyone. I submitted my CA PE Application a few month ago, in late September. The check is cashed. However, I have two concerns:

1- I haven't got any sort of communication form the board regarding receive or approval of my application as of today (Dec 19). (Yes, I had provided 2 self addressed envelopes with my application). I have called 3 times to check the status, and am told that my name is not even in the computer yet, and that they have got too many applications, etc. 

2- My friend got a letter stating that his application was reviewed and approved, and the his letter also says:

"please be advised that beginning with April 2017 exam, CA has a new licensing process as follows: 1. Engineer passes FE exam, 2. Engineer passed the PE exam (NCEES exam), 3. Engineer applies to BPELSG for license approval, once approved, 4. Engineer takes CA exams (seismic, survey). 5. Engineer is licensed after all CA requirements (exams, fingerprinting, etc.) are fulfilled."

So now my other concern is to study for 3 exams and get the same letter that I should wait to pass the NCEES exam first before I can take seismic/survey. Has anyone get any PE application approval  from the board in email or mail? Thanks. :thankyou:

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Several others above seem to have a pretty good handle on that changes to the process.  Overall, I would just add that the intent of the California Board is to emphasize that the application is for licensure, not to take an exam.  The public hires you and relies upon your work, not because you passed an exam, but because you are experienced and authorized to provide the services that they need.  BPELSG is continually evaluating its processes for improvement and to take advantage of technological advances in how exams are delivered.  Acquire the necessary education, experience, and exams and then apply to BPELSG for licensure.  The separation between national exams and the few licenses that require a state exam in California (i.e., Civil, Land Surveyor, Geologist, etc.) is natural because by fulfilling the education, experience, and national exam requirements, the status is more consistent with other states and those other exams are directly a result of applying to become licensed in California.

Robert.easylife (great tag name) - there is nothing prohibiting you from registering with NCEES for whatever national PE exam you need to satisfy licensing requirements in California now and not waiting to hear from BPELSG on whether your application is approved.  Once approved, you will be notified that you can sit for the two spring 2017 California civil exams.  If you need to sit for the national exam, just register when you can and sit again next fall.  There is no need to notify BPELSG each time you plan to sit for the national exam and BPELSG will not be monitoring it.  For that reason, and if you already have an application in the pipeline with BPELSG (read as approved), you will need to notify BPELSG upon passing the national exam component so it can be verified and updated in the system.

Thanks CAPLS for the information. I know pretty much all of those though. The thing is, I also need to study for seismic and survey in CA, and it won't makes sense to study and then realize that, for example, my application is denied for any weird reason. I have paid lots of money to register, and the California board does not even bother giving an update through email. It loos like that all of the government processes sucks no matter what; no surprise as there are tons of old people working in the CA board that take their job for granted, so no real need to give a f*** about applicants. 

robert.easylife said:

Thanks CAPLS for the information. I know pretty much all of those though. The thing is, I also need to study for seismic and survey in CA, and it won't makes sense to study and then realize that, for example, my application is denied for any weird reason. I have paid lots of money to register, and the California board does not even bother giving an update through email. It loos like that all of the government processes sucks no matter what; no surprise as there are tons of old people working in the CA board that take their job for granted, so no real need to give a f*** about applicants. 

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Ha, well apparently I am one of those "old people working in the CA board that take their job for granted..." and don't "...give a f*** about applicants."  There's a reason why I am on here trying to help with some of these questions - to make your life and mine much easier.  If that's what you would refer to as a negative approach, there probably isn't much that I can do to help you.

But I will try anyhow...because...well, that's who I am and I'm willing to look past comments from those that are ill informed and don't realize it.  Remember that when you apply to BPELSG (or any other licensing board), you are applying for licensure, not to take an exam.  In that regard, it is the applicant's responsibility to know and believe whether they've actually met all the requirements to obtain that license.  It is only for the licensing board to confirm that information.  Unfortunately, in many cases the applicants fail to understand that and want to rely upon someone else to evaluate and tell them that.  Once you are licensed, you will not have someone to lean on for that and meeting requirements of a project or the standard of practice is the licensee's sole responsibility, not someone else.

If you believe you have the requisite experience, go for it.  Pass the exam.  Submit your application.  In most cases, not all, if you have concerns about whether you truly qualify and need that reassurance from a review, than you should probably consider trusting your instinct and obtain more experience.

If you have any real issues with the process in California...and sometimes people do...please don't hesitate to contact me at [email protected] so I can evaluate the situation.