NCEES Record - system upgrade

For current record holders who are affected by the recent system upgrade, please visit the visitor post on NCEES facebook page.

I am trying to explore legal options for recent record holders who have been affected by this unannounced change.

References are valid for a year when the record was created. Asking to re-submit references because now they have a new format/system is a breach of contract that NCEES entered into when you paid for and created the record within one year. There are no system upgrade clauses in the agreement that invalidates an already submitted reference.

automatic said:

Asking to re-submit references because now they have a new format/system is a breach of contract that NCEES entered into when you paid for and created the record within one year. 

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I am a legacy NCEES record holder and have not been asked to re-submit any references. My record is still valid for the 2016 calendar year.

knight1fox3 said:

I am a legacy NCEES record holder and have not been asked to re-submit any references. My record is still valid for the 2016 calendar year.

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OK... I am puzzled. So you can view your record when you login to MyNCEES? I am being asked to enter email addresses of the references I have in the system or add new. The references need to be in electronic format in the new system. References will be sent an email from the system with a link to a form to be filled in. When my record was created a few months ago, it was in paper format.

automatic said:

References will be sent an email from the system with a link to a form to be filled in.

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I am in the process of submitting my application. It looks like emails are sent and the reference does something via email.

I cannot view my record with the new system as it stands today (though I suspect they are working on that).  However, here's some info from the MyNCEES website:

Records Program accounts must be linked to your MyNCEES account before you can transmit your Record to a state licensing board. You will need the password to your prior existing account in order to link your accounts.Contact NCEES if you don’t have this information.

For best results, prior existing accounts should be linked approximately 30 days prior to making your first transmittal request in the new system. This will ensure your Record is current and eligible for transmission to a state licensing board.

The new system no longer requires members to renew their Record or pay a renewal fee. There is no need to link your account until you are ready to transmit your information.

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This topic was also discussed somewhat in another thread.

jmooney5115 said:

I am in the process of submitting my application. It looks like emails are sent and the reference does something via email.

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Yes... which is fine and good for new applicants. For recent record holders that submitted paper references, we have to use the email system and get new references (can be from the same persons of course..).

jmooney5115 said:

I am in the process of submitting my application. It looks like emails are sent and the reference does something via email.

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Yes, this is the case when applying for a NCEES Record.  Existing record holder need not do anything other than link their legacy account with the new MyNCEES account. I believe detailed instructions were emailed to those legacy NCEES Record holders.

automatic said:

Yes... which is fine and good for new applicants. For recent record holders that submitted paper references, we have to use the email system and get new references (can be from the same persons of course..).

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I'm unclear as to what your status is on this.  Was your NCEES Record application approved such that you were assigned an active record number?  If so, then see my previous post above. No other action on your part is required.

knight1fox3 said:

I'm unclear as to what your status is on this.  Was your NCEES Record application approved such that you were assigned an active record number?  If so, then see my previous post above. No other action on your part is required.

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I understand what you are saying. I do want to do a transmittal of my record. This is where I am having an issue. Yes, my record was created in Jan and I have an active record under the old system, and it is now "linked". However, the references I had submitted are not valid in the new system anymore. New references have to be obtained via the electronic system.

Interesting and sounds to be frustrating all at the same time. I have not requested a record transmittal yet with the new system. If new electronic references are required, then us legacy record holders may as well consider our records to be null and void.  The references I had to establish my record were from about 6+ years ago.  I can guarantee that some have either moved on from that particular employer or retired out-right. So I would likely need to come up with yet another 5 new PE references. To date I've just been renewing my record with the (1) required reference at my current employer.

@kevo_55, @iwire, @smahurin, any additional insight into this?

knight1fox3 said:

Interesting and sounds to be frustrating all at the same time. I have not requested a record transmittal yet with the new system. If new electronic references are required, then us legacy record holders may as well consider our records to be null and void.  The references I had to establish my record were from about 6+ years ago.  I can guarantee that some have either moved on from that particular employer or retired out-right. So I would likely need to come up with yet another 5 new PE references. To date I've just been renewing my record with the (1) required reference at my current employer.

@kevo_55, @iwire, @smahurin, any additional insight into this?

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Exactly. There in lies my frustration. I think for Civil/Structural PEs this may not be a big issue as they work with PEs on a daily basis. I am a Control Systems Engineer. There aren't many PEs in our field. I had to dig up PEs from my previous work who I worked with to get this record created. It took a long time to track them down and request the references etc. And in a few months, they tossed it out. I don't see these PEs on a daily basis.

knight1fox3 said:

Interesting and sounds to be frustrating all at the same time. I have not requested a record transmittal yet with the new system. If new electronic references are required, then us legacy record holders may as well consider our records to be null and void.  The references I had to establish my record were from about 6+ years ago.  I can guarantee that some have either moved on from that particular employer or retired out-right. So I would likely need to come up with yet another 5 new PE references. To date I've just been renewing my record with the (1) required reference at my current employer.

@kevo_55, @iwire, @smahurin, any additional insight into this?

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Two more points:

1) It is very clear to me that the impact of this system upgrade to existing record holders haven't been communicated at all. You didn't know about this reference requirement, and no one will until they are ready to use their record (or I don't know what happens when it is time to submit your one reference/year refresh). I definitely didn't know anything about it when I created the record just a few months ago and I didn't know about it until I went online to have my record transmitted. Not many existing record holders are actively on the site trying to transmit a record.

2) When a record was created and you paid for it, NCEES agreed into an agreement to provide this service to you for the fee you paid. Their agreement does not include and the record holders did not agree to re-submit any information for system upgrades. Legally, my NCEES record and all data I submitted for it, should still be valid. They are in breach of contract if they cannot provide this.

I stumbled across this when I wanted to submit to Ohio. Went to do a transmittal to find out that I need to link my legacy account (which will take up to 2 weeks). I saw today that I could submit a transmittal so I called Customer Support and I was told I can go through checkout but no transmittal will occur until I get updated references. I asked what happened to the references I just submitted and was told that all previous references were destroyed (she thinks). Now I am unsure if my legacy account that I "linked" last week started linking last week or if it was waiting for me to transmit (and pay) for a transmittal. Even after my phone call, I don't know what the process truly is. Does my account need to get linked before I am able to send out reference requests? So I cannot transmit for 2 weeks plus however long it takes for my references to be returned?

@automatic, your #1 is spot on. I received no notification that this was happening. My "myNCEES" and "records" account had different email addresses. Since I have not used "myNCCES" since I took my exams, it had an outdated email address. I wonder if they emailed that one. You would think they would use the records account email to inform the customers. Why do people use this service? To speed up applications but now I am being slowed down when time is of the essence.

I AM ANGRY!

I just called back. You cannot send out reference requests until after the account has been migrated. Migration did not start until today when I requested a transmittal. Me linking my account last week did what? I don't know, but I do know NCEES has done a terrible job corresponding with me. I also asked about a refund for my last year's service and was told I would not be getting a refund. I renewed in August for (1) year and their service was terminated a couple months ago. I would think I would get a refund. Also, transmittals increased from $60 to $75 while a records account no longer requires an annual fee.

More complaining: The OH board only sits every other month. So if I can get my transmittal to OH in time, it will take an extra (2) months to get licensed. Don't worry NCEES, engineering is a hobby and not my source of income to provide for my family. Missing out on work because I can't get licensed affects me very little. 

jfluckey said:

I just called back. You cannot send out reference requests until after the account has been migrated. Migration did not start until today when I requested a transmittal. Me linking my account last week did what? I don't know, but I do know NCEES has done a terrible job corresponding with me. I also asked about a refund for my last year's service and was told I would not be getting a refund. I renewed in August for (1) year and their service was terminated a couple months ago. I would think I would get a refund. Also, transmittals increased from $60 to $75 while a records account no longer requires an annual fee.

More complaining: The OH board only sits every other month. So if I can get my transmittal to OH in time, it will take an extra (2) months to get licensed. Don't worry NCEES, engineering is a hobby and not my source of income to provide for my family. Missing out on work because I can't get licensed affects me very little. 

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Yes. You have to pay for a transmittal for the migration to begin. At least for me that was the case. It took a little over two weeks for the migration to be completed. The reference part is what bothers me the most. I can redo every other part of the application - suck it up... but the references make me really angry.

They should get some contract workers and do a manual data entry of all previous references.

This is cheating/robbery from an organization that is supposed to uphold high standards. Disappointed.

If there is enough interest, if I can get 15-20 people interested, I can organize some legal course of action against NCEES for this debacle.

They did fast track my migration after my third or fourth call today... I have now been migrated and I can complete the missing parts of migration [work gap, work experience (I don't know why they think my last employment ended 2 years before it actually did), Exam and license verification (I need to pay an extra $12 to IN to verify my already-verified-to-NCEES license), personal data, and references]. Yes, I am really angry about the reference letters too. I just updated one and now I need to ask for my referrer to do another one!

jfluckey said:

They did fast track my migration after my third or fourth call today... I have now been migrated and I can complete the missing parts of migration [work gap, work experience (I don't know why they think my last employment ended 2 years before it actually did), Exam and license verification (I need to pay an extra $12 to IN to verify my already-verified-to-NCEES license), personal data, and references]. Yes, I am really angry about the reference letters too. I just updated one and now I need to ask for my referrer to do another one!

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Yes... same comment about them ending my employment and asking me to create a new one. Why not give an option to just click a checkbox to say, you are at the same job.

I didn't have to pay verify my current license though. That verification was fast and automatic. Just had to request it from the system (makes me wonder why they couldn't initiate it from the system as part of the upgrade though).

Yes, References.......  

I should have just applied for comity with CA without going through this hassle of a record creation!

Wow, what a fiasco!  I am not thinking they should refund my renewal fee that I paid in Feb.  

As for notification, this is the only information I received from NCEES regarding the records system:

The NCEES Records Program will be unavailable June 11–19 for system enhancements. You will not be able to access your account during this time. As a reminder, all upcoming transmittal requests must be submitted no later than June 10.

Thank you for your patience as we work to bring you a new and improved system

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Nowhere did it state that the records system we used regularly would be migrated with MyNCEES. And furthermore, nothing on what to expect and PLAN FOR with regard to what would be needed for the migration. I'm really at a loss on the references aspect. As I mentioned above, I know for a fact that some of my references have already retired and are no longer reachable.  So does that mean I now have to find (5) new references for the electronic format?  If that is the case, it's going to be quite a hassle and long drawn-out process. Speaking bluntly, WTH were they thinking?!

After I had to get the references to update online, I finally got to what I thought was the final step of "record migration".  Not so.  They want me to get re-verification of state licenses, and work history since my initial application.  And trying to edit the work history only got me an error 404.