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msjesskessler

Failures... What was your score?

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I wish NCEES just posted the cut-off scores, it's really annoying not knowing.


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They do not, and will never do that. That would be like giving the secret away. They have too much to lo$e if they do that.


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you pass or you fail, what does the number matter. Just identifying your strength/weaknesses should really be the extent of the diagnostic report they send out. Get the numbers game out of picture and study again.


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They do not, and will never do that. That would be like giving the secret away. They have too much to lo$e if they do that.

How so? It could easily be determined without enough failures posting scores.

I don't understand how or why it's a big secret, or why there is "Money" in the secrecy as you seem to be implying.

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Does knowing how close you failed make it easier? I failed 3 times and it sucked each and every one. Changing your approach is the best advice you will get on this board.

Worked for me.

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Does knowing how close you failed make it easier? I failed 3 times and it sucked each and every one. Changing your approach is the best advice you will get on this board.

Worked for me.

^This

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I wish NCEES just posted the cut-off scores, it's really annoying not knowing.

I believe that knowing the cut-off scores will be more prevalent for the repeat examinees to fail the exam again. Some or most examinees will be gunning for that released cut-off scores while the scaling curve will be always different with new and old examinees taking the exams.

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According to the NCEES website, 56% of PE test takers passed the October '14 exams.



11,518 test takers


6,430 passed



Just think of that statistic and remember your exam day. Chances are that somewhere between half to a third of the people in the room didn't pass their exam. If you are reading this thread - don't worry about cut scores or failing scores. Learn the material by solving problems. It will help you build confidence. Most people can pass with adequate time, effort, and understanding.


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They do not, and will never do that. That would be like giving the secret away. They have too much to lo$e if they do that.

How so? It could easily be determined without enough failures posting scores.

I don't understand how or why it's a big secret, or why there is "Money" in the secrecy as you seem to be implying.

Really?

How much did you pay to take the test?

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11518 * $225 is around 2.6 millions


2.6 millions twice a year is something close to 5.2 millions.



That is just the PE test. Add the FE and other tests to the mix.



But you are right. It is not about money...or is it?


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11518 * $225 is around 2.6 millions

2.6 millions twice a year is something close to 5.2 millions.

That is just the PE test. Add the FE and other tests to the mix.

But you are right. It is not about money...or is it?

I'm not saying there isn't big money involved with the test.

I'm asking why the cut score couldn't be shared, and how the cut-score secrecy is involved with the big money.

My only thought would be that cut-scores changing would have some calling conspiracy to NCEES when they miss by 1 point on varying scales, or something similar.

Edited by electricalPickles

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I wish NCEES just posted the cut-off scores, it's really annoying not knowing.

I believe that knowing the cut-off scores will be more prevalent for the repeat examinees to fail the exam again. Some or most examinees will be gunning for that released cut-off scores while the scaling curve will be always different with new and old examinees taking the exams.

I've never understood the notion that someone would spend months studying preparing to get 56 (give or take) questions correct. I too agree that NCEES shouldn't share the passing score, but some of the reasons I hear on here are ridiculous. My reason is that since the score changes, they'd get bombarded with complaints after every exam about why the score was 56 last year and it's 55 this year. However I don't think it would hurt examinees to know the passing score, but unless you know the score beforehand (which is impossible because they set it based on results), then knowing it after the fact is pointless.

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I wish NCEES just posted the cut-off scores, it's really annoying not knowing.

I believe that knowing the cut-off scores will be more prevalent for the repeat examinees to fail the exam again. Some or most examinees will be gunning for that released cut-off scores while the scaling curve will be always different with new and old examinees taking the exams.

I've never understood the notion that someone would spend months studying preparing to get 56 (give or take) questions correct. I too agree that NCEES shouldn't share the passing score, but some of the reasons I hear on here are ridiculous. My reason is that since the score changes, they'd get bombarded with complaints after every exam about why the score was 56 last year and it's 55 this year. However I don't think it would hurt examinees to know the passing score, but unless you know the score beforehand (which is impossible because they set it based on results), then knowing it after the fact is pointless.

Wow! A voice of reason in the darkness! A lot of good points here., I think.

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I couldn't care less how NCEES comes up with the cut score. That's top secret and I understand that.



I passed the exam and now have my PE, so it's more out of curiosity for me more than anything. If the cut score was low, then it would simply confirm how I felt that the exam was very challenging.



Last April, there were so many replies that it was easy to determine the cut score, this October, there are hardly any replies....



Bump for more results!


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11518 * $225 is around 2.6 millions

2.6 millions twice a year is something close to 5.2 millions.

That is just the PE test. Add the FE and other tests to the mix.

But you are right. It is not about money...or is it?

$5 million in today's standard is not much considering they need to pay salaries lobbyists and those proctors!

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I've never understood the notion that someone would spend months studying preparing to get 56 (give or take) questions correct. I too agree that NCEES shouldn't share the passing score, but some of the reasons I hear on here are ridiculous. My reason is that since the score changes, they'd get bombarded with complaints after every exam about why the score was 56 last year and it's 55 this year. However I don't think it would hurt examinees to know the passing score, but unless you know the score beforehand (which is impossible because they set it based on results), then knowing it after the fact is pointless.

Except, getting the bare minimum passing result means the least amount of time spent studying. This is *technically* the most efficient way to pass the exam.

Edited by electricalPickles

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I've taken the Mechanical / TF exam more than once and really hope this month's exam will be my last. Nevertheless, on each diagnostic report I've received, the number of questions asked per subject area has always been constant. Using NCEES' graphic comparing my score with the average successful test taker's score for that area, it's possible to estimate, at least per area, what average number of correct responses is required. Some of these varied slightly, reflective of the fact that the cut score floats. Considering previous discussion on this point, I would imagine that 56+ is possibly a passing score (other non-engineering, state-issued license exams tend to have a 70% cut score), 60+ is probably a passing score, and 70+ is definitely a passing score. Personally, if I can walk out of the exam room with confidence in my responses to somewhere in the upper 50s to low 60s number of questions, I'd feel pretty good about how I did. I would also anticipate that the bulk of those upper-50s to low-60s correct responses to come from the morning half. Below just for fun is my estimate of low and high scores per area for the average successful examinee.

Area Subject # Qs Est. Avg. Score
1 Basic Engineering Practice: Basic Engineering Practice 12 9 9
2 Mechanical Systems & Materials: Principles 5 2 3
3 Mechanical Systems & Materials: Applications 3 2 3
4 Hydraulic & Fluids: Principles 3 2 3
5 Hydraulic & Fluids: Applications 4 4 4
6 Energy & Power Systems: Principles 3 2 3
7 Energy & Power Systems: Applications 3 2 3
8 HVAC & Refrigeration: Principles 4 4 4
9 HVAC & Refrigeration: Applications 3 2 3
10 Principles: Materials Properties (density) 2 1 1
11 Principles: Fluid Mechanics 4 2 4
12 Principles: Heat Transfer Principles (convection) 4 3 4
13 Principles: Mass Balance Principles (evaporation) 3 2 2
14 Principles: Thermodynamics 4 2 3
15 Principles: Related Principles 1 1 1
16 Applications: Equipment 7 4 5
17 Applications: Systems 13 6 13
18 Applications: Codes & Standards 2 1 2
      51 70
      64% 88%

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50 minutes ago, fireguy said:

I've taken the Mechanical / TF exam more than once and really hope this month's exam will be my last. Nevertheless, on each diagnostic report I've received, the number of questions asked per subject area has always been constant. Using NCEES' graphic comparing my score with the average successful test taker's score for that area, it's possible to estimate, at least per area, what average number of correct responses is required. Some of these varied slightly, reflective of the fact that the cut score floats. Considering previous discussion on this point, I would imagine that 56+ is possibly a passing score (other non-engineering, state-issued license exams tend to have a 70% cut score), 60+ is probably a passing score, and 70+ is definitely a passing score. Personally, if I can walk out of the exam room with confidence in my responses to somewhere in the upper 50s to low 60s number of questions, I'd feel pretty good about how I did. I would also anticipate that the bulk of those upper-50s to low-60s correct responses to come from the morning half. Below just for fun is my estimate of low and high scores per area for the average successful examinee.

Area Subject # Qs Est. Avg. Score
1 Basic Engineering Practice: Basic Engineering Practice 12 9 9
2 Mechanical Systems & Materials: Principles 5 2 3
3 Mechanical Systems & Materials: Applications 3 2 3
4 Hydraulic & Fluids: Principles 3 2 3
5 Hydraulic & Fluids: Applications 4 4 4
6 Energy & Power Systems: Principles 3 2 3
7 Energy & Power Systems: Applications 3 2 3
8 HVAC & Refrigeration: Principles 4 4 4
9 HVAC & Refrigeration: Applications 3 2 3
10 Principles: Materials Properties (density) 2 1 1
11 Principles: Fluid Mechanics 4 2 4
12 Principles: Heat Transfer Principles (convection) 4 3 4
13 Principles: Mass Balance Principles (evaporation) 3 2 2
14 Principles: Thermodynamics 4 2 3
15 Principles: Related Principles 1 1 1
16 Applications: Equipment 7 4 5
17 Applications: Systems 13 6 13
18 Applications: Codes & Standards 2 1 2
      51 70
      64% 88%

I'd actually go so far as to offer this:

56/80 = 70% = might pass

60/80 = 75% = good chance you'll pass

64/80 = 80% = definitely passed

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